OP
OP
T675Rich
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham
Even though I said to Cannondale I felt like the shop was fobbing me off they told me to take it to the store..It's the confidence bit I have an issue with.
Spoke has broken at the thread end
- Thread starter T675Rich
- Start date
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Even though I said to Cannondale I felt like the shop was fobbing me off they told me to take it to the store..It's the confidence bit I have an issue with.
confusedcyclist
Veteran
We all have to start somewhere, read up on the consumer law, practice what you are going to say before you walk in. Be firm and polite. Loads of advice on the internet. It sounds like they have pushed you around because you didn't know better. Now is the time to get informed on consumer law. If you are worried about mucking it up, put it clearly in writing and deliver it by hand.
I would start with a tactical acknowledgment that it's not really the shops fault that Cannondale have provided an inadequate wheel(set) and whilst your friends in the shop may have made a bigger hash out of it by doing a bad repair job, it's Cannondales responsibility to sort it. Really, all the shop had to do is trigger the RMA with the manufacturer for warranty claim, however in their defence, this isn't the first port of call, a spoke replacement and true is an easy job, but you've arguably got a duff wheel here that keeps losing tension. You've not damaged the wheel by jamming a tree branch through it (misuse). The wheel needs to be replaced or rebuilt from scratch, the shop has the right to take either course. You can't deal with the manufacturer directly unless the retailer goes bust.
If it does go back to Cannondale, it shouldn't be coming out of the shops pocket, so you don't need to worry about that. Just be polite and firm, don't leave until you've got what you want, they have had their chance to fix the wheel twice and you are back to square one. I suspect up to now, either they were just too lazy to trigger the return, didn't want to lose the bike sale or you haven't impressed on them how poor the wheel actually is. That's the impression you need to make. Don't mention hitting the pothole again, it's practically irrelevant and just gave them an angle to squeeze a repair job out of you! I hope they refunded that btw. If not, demand it once they agree to sort out the warranty claim, as they are then admitting it's a faulty goods issue.
I would start with a tactical acknowledgment that it's not really the shops fault that Cannondale have provided an inadequate wheel(set) and whilst your friends in the shop may have made a bigger hash out of it by doing a bad repair job, it's Cannondales responsibility to sort it. Really, all the shop had to do is trigger the RMA with the manufacturer for warranty claim, however in their defence, this isn't the first port of call, a spoke replacement and true is an easy job, but you've arguably got a duff wheel here that keeps losing tension. You've not damaged the wheel by jamming a tree branch through it (misuse). The wheel needs to be replaced or rebuilt from scratch, the shop has the right to take either course. You can't deal with the manufacturer directly unless the retailer goes bust.
If it does go back to Cannondale, it shouldn't be coming out of the shops pocket, so you don't need to worry about that. Just be polite and firm, don't leave until you've got what you want, they have had their chance to fix the wheel twice and you are back to square one. I suspect up to now, either they were just too lazy to trigger the return, didn't want to lose the bike sale or you haven't impressed on them how poor the wheel actually is. That's the impression you need to make. Don't mention hitting the pothole again, it's practically irrelevant and just gave them an angle to squeeze a repair job out of you! I hope they refunded that btw. If not, demand it once they agree to sort out the warranty claim, as they are then admitting it's a faulty goods issue.
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roadrash
cycle chatterer
- Location
- sitting on the edge of wigan pier
you need to be assertive but polite, otherwise it looks as though they see you as a cash cow , you should never have been charged for the initial wheel repair, if they wont play ball then I would be politely telling them that they have had the opportunity to rectify the matter and it will now be reported to trading standards to see what they think.
confusedcyclist
Veteran
Don't start with trading standards though, need to lean more heavily on your rights, and give them a chance before putting backs up. That's a last resort.
Heckler
Well-Known Member
FNAR!
roadrash
cycle chatterer
- Location
- sitting on the edge of wigan pier
Nigelnightmare
Über Member
Go to "Citizens Advice", they can help you by letting you know exactly where you stand legally.
P.S.
It sounds like the LBS didn't re-tension *(the rest of the spokes in) the wheel when replacing the spoke.
Wheel building is not difficult BUT it is a Skill.
Most people today have not learned many manual skills, but they can send text 's whilst driving!
*Edit
P.S.
It sounds like the LBS didn't re-tension *(the rest of the spokes in) the wheel when replacing the spoke.
Wheel building is not difficult BUT it is a Skill.
Most people today have not learned many manual skills, but they can send text 's whilst driving!
*Edit
roadrash
cycle chatterer
- Location
- sitting on the edge of wigan pier
An update would be nice ??
OP
OP
T675Rich
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham
Apologies, through a combination of me not being well and my mother being in hospital has kind of pushed this to one side so I haven't yet been back to the store. Today is the first time I have ridden since.
Cannondale said:
"I spent over 20 years in a store as a manager / mechanic and spokes coming loose and the odd spoke snapping can happen but if this happened on many occasions I would have normally contacted the warranty department just to see what their line on the matter was just so that I was aware if they could help or not. There is a product on the market called spoke freeze that I used to use when coming across this issue which is applied to the spoke thread during the re-truing / building process ( similar to Loctite ) which should hold the spoke in place.
I would try to speak to the store again."
I rode in again and the spoke doesn't seem any looser so I am wondering if I am just being a bit ott, there is a vid of the loose spoke here.
I want to thank you all for the good advice. I'm going to email the store first. I'm not in the best place mentally at the moment (I was hoping more exercise would help this) and almost any kind of conflict like this, especially face to face causes me a great deal of stress and I think people see that and know I am rubbish at pushing back. It's somewhat annoying, if the wheel had been fine after the spoke was replaced I would have just taken the hit rather than push it further.
I haven't hit one, that's the annoying thing.
Cannondale said:
"I spent over 20 years in a store as a manager / mechanic and spokes coming loose and the odd spoke snapping can happen but if this happened on many occasions I would have normally contacted the warranty department just to see what their line on the matter was just so that I was aware if they could help or not. There is a product on the market called spoke freeze that I used to use when coming across this issue which is applied to the spoke thread during the re-truing / building process ( similar to Loctite ) which should hold the spoke in place.
I would try to speak to the store again."
I rode in again and the spoke doesn't seem any looser so I am wondering if I am just being a bit ott, there is a vid of the loose spoke here.
I want to thank you all for the good advice. I'm going to email the store first. I'm not in the best place mentally at the moment (I was hoping more exercise would help this) and almost any kind of conflict like this, especially face to face causes me a great deal of stress and I think people see that and know I am rubbish at pushing back. It's somewhat annoying, if the wheel had been fine after the spoke was replaced I would have just taken the hit rather than push it further.
I haven't hit one, that's the annoying thing.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
This product (and similar) should be avoided: a spoke at proper tension will not loosen and indeed one doesn't want to 'lock' its thread: one may want to make a minor adjustment and if the thread is 'locked' . . . Disappointed that 'Cannondale' are offering that ad hoc advice/comment - though it sounds as if it's one man's (poor) practice he's sharing. Is Cannondale recommending 'spoke freeze'? Are the wheels they fit to their bikes assembled using this?
This wheel is/was not fit for purpose (600 miles is a reasonable test of a new bike and new wheels). See advice above.
OP
OP
T675Rich
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham
I went back into the shop again instead of emailing. The man would not entertain the idea that there is anything even remotely wrong, I'm "worrying about nothing" as he put it. He told me not all spokes are tensioned the same and every 4th spoke did nothing and as it was not on the drive side it isn't anything worth worrying about. He had customers who have ridden with multiple broken spokes and it isn't a problem. I made the mistake of mentioning that I had read online that spokes shouldn't just come loose and he said "people put any old nonsense online, you want to talk to people who work in the cycling game"...So I guess I have to decide if I want to go any further or not...
rogerzilla
Legendary Member
He's a moron.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Rich
We have given you bags of sound advice.
"[No]thing even remotely wrong" - well clearly there is.
"not all spokes are tensioned the same" - correct but all spokes on one side of the rear wheel will be roughly the same. None should be loose. To give you an idea the scale of the force/tension in rear wheel spokes we're talking about (left side / right side spokes), imagine an 90-130kg person hanging (ie force of gravity) on one spoke.
"every 4th spoke did nothing" - complete BS. Why have such "4th" spokes there, then?
"as it was not on the drive side it isn't anything worth worrying about" - sorry? Does a wheel not need reasonably tensioned spokes on the left side?
"customers who have ridden with multiple broken spokes and it isn't a problem" - not a problem for whom? Did these spokes all break at the same time? And how long have they ridden the wheel like this - to get home probably, and that's it.
"people put any old nonsense online, you want to talk to people who work in the cycling game" - first part true, but not in this thread. Some who've posted do "work in the cycling game" btw.
Do Northfield Cycles have a local club they support or are associated with? Perhaps you could seek one of their member's help when you go in again. Perhaps try to go in when there's someone more knowledgeable and customer-focused on 'front of shop'.
We have given you bags of sound advice.
"[No]thing even remotely wrong" - well clearly there is.
"not all spokes are tensioned the same" - correct but all spokes on one side of the rear wheel will be roughly the same. None should be loose. To give you an idea the scale of the force/tension in rear wheel spokes we're talking about (left side / right side spokes), imagine an 90-130kg person hanging (ie force of gravity) on one spoke.
"every 4th spoke did nothing" - complete BS. Why have such "4th" spokes there, then?
"as it was not on the drive side it isn't anything worth worrying about" - sorry? Does a wheel not need reasonably tensioned spokes on the left side?
"customers who have ridden with multiple broken spokes and it isn't a problem" - not a problem for whom? Did these spokes all break at the same time? And how long have they ridden the wheel like this - to get home probably, and that's it.
"people put any old nonsense online, you want to talk to people who work in the cycling game" - first part true, but not in this thread. Some who've posted do "work in the cycling game" btw.
Do Northfield Cycles have a local club they support or are associated with? Perhaps you could seek one of their member's help when you go in again. Perhaps try to go in when there's someone more knowledgeable and customer-focused on 'front of shop'.
OP
OP
T675Rich
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham
You have, and I am very grateful for it. I'm really sorry if it seems like I am ignoring it because I am not, I am just really adverse to confrontation even if it is to my detriment. I have to decide if I want to go way out of my comfort zone to pursue this further or not.
Regarding getting another person front of shop, the guy I saw yesterday was the owner and according to the the other guy there is the wheel builder. I get a similar response from both. I don't know if they are associated with a local club.
