Spokes.....

[John the Monkey]

On the rear, you're trying to balance tensions within the sides, not across the whole wheel - the fact that rear wheels are dished (the rim is not central between the hub flanges) means that the tensions will be different on left and right.

On the front (provided it's not a disk front (they do have some dish, I think)) tensions should be more or less equal both sides, as the rim is central between the hub flanges.

 

[Panter]

That makes sense, thank you.

I think I shall just set out to tighten those that are obviously loose initially (at least a couple give just a dull plunk when pinged) so that I don't suffer future spoke breakages.

I don't want to go mad, these are very cheap Alex rims that have covered over 3500 miles after all but it's always nice to be able to tackle these things

 

[llllllll]

On the back wheel, however, the "ping test" sounds horrific and I guess I'll need to have a good play with that once I get home.
It does seem to run pretty true though.

Don't do it! If it's running true (and assuming it's not flexing all over the place) why start messing with it?

 

[Panter]

Don't do it! If it's running true (and assuming it's not flexing all over the place) why start messing with it?

It seems fine, I'm assuming though that the spokes that aren't loose are under too much tension so if I keep riding it, I'm going to suffer breakages?

 

[Globalti]

It would really help if you made youself a simple dish gauge. This is just a piece of wood the same length as the diameter of the wheel with a bolt through the middle and a couple of bolts or screws through the ends. Drill the holes tight for the bolts and they'll cut their own threads in the softer wood. Adjust everything so that the two end bolts are touching the rim while the middle bolt is touching the end of the axle, then try the same on the other side of the wheel. This is especially useful for the rear wheel where the rim must be central on the axle but, as you already know, the spokes are almost flat on the drive side.

 

[Panter]

Thanks Rigid raider, I've been reading Sheldon Browns article on wheelbuilding, seems a very useful tool.

However, I've decided that wheel trueing is not for me. I've just spent a very frustrating couple of Hours on the rear wheel and it's now slightly worse than it was to start with.
The spoke tension is very slightly more even than it was though, is the wheel now stronger?

Don't do it! If it's running true (and assuming it's not flexing all over the place) why start messing with it?

Why didn't I just listen?

 

[dodgy]

I doubt if i could have iterated enough the trade off between perfectly even tension and trueness and strength

 

[Crackle]

Blimey Panter, are you gonna ride this wheel or join an orchestra?

 

[Panter]

PMSL Hopefully, ride it

Sorry dodgy, I know you kept repeating it but it takes a while for things to sink in with me

Thing is, it seems logical to me that is there's a kink to one side, with my weight pushing down on that kink from the top, the wheel must be vulnerable to breakage at that kink but that's obviously not the case then.



I set about it at first by setting the spoke tensions very roughly equal (they were nowhere near) but the wheel kept fouling the brakes.
I then readjusted until the wheel ran truer but mantaining as even a spoke tension as I could get.

The wheel now clears the brakes (just) but I do run the brake blocks very close to the rim and spoke tension is more even so presumably I've done Ok.
I just found it very frustrating trying to strike the balance last night.

The front wheel held up fine on the way home, in fact it felt slightly smoother but I guess that was just phsycological
I'm next commuting in tomorrow so the rear wheel will get a testing then, I'll have my taxi money with me just in case

I did hope to build myself a set of wheels one day but I shall wait until I have plenty of time and purchase all the required tools as well.

Thanks for all the help,

 

[John the Monkey]

I did hope to build myself a set of wheels one day but I shall wait until I have plenty of time and purchase all the required tools as well.

Giving plenty of time is a good idea. I'd go further, and say that splitting the process into chunks is the best approach (lace one day, take up tension the next, true the day after, &c)

As for tools - a good spoke key (the Spokey type are best, imo) and a nipple driver (I use the cyclo adjustable driver bit) and a box of Q-tips were the only things I bought. The truing jig was made out of old bits of timber, and the dishing gauge from stiff cardboard and a steel rule. The nipple driver was a bit of an extravagance (you can make one by filing down an old philips screwdriver) but being able to screw down all the spoke nipples to a guaranteed point of engagement helped me a lot. The Q-tips are used for oiling the nipple eyelets, something that allows a proper amount of tension to be applied to the spoke nipples.

If you start with a good rim, and properly measured components, building is fairly straightforward (imo) compared to truing an existing wheel.

 

[dodgy]

You'll very quickly learn the rules when fixing your first wheel, even if learning destroys a perfectly good wheel Actually, destroy is a strong word, almost all badly trued wheels can be brought back to life, just loosen all spokes until you have a loose structure and start again. Only do that when you have a spare wheel at hand, I wouldn't want you to be deprived of your transport!

 

[Panter]

Thanks all, I will have a go then one day.
I might get a Summer bike early next Year which would mean I could spend some time building some wheels for the SCR.

The good news is that it all held together for the commute. There were an awful lot of pinging noises for the first few hundred yards and then again when honking up a steep hill but I assume it was just everything settling.
Can't say I found it too settling though, I thought the wheel was going to self destruct

The "trueness" doesn't seem to have changed either after 30 odd miles on rough roads so I'm going to assume that my meddling was in fact very productive and i've saved myself from iminenet spoke failure

 

[John the Monkey]

There were an awful lot of pinging noises for the first few hundred yards and then again when honking up a steep hill but I assume it was just everything settling.
Can't say I found it too settling though, I thought the wheel was going to self destruct

The pinging is the spokes settling, as you say.

You can avoid that in two (I think) ways;

1) Turn the spoke nipples a half turn or so past where you want them, then wind back to the position you intended. This is done because tensioned spokes tend to twist as the nipple turns - winding past the point you want, then back tends to reduce that spoke twist.

2) Relieve some of the spoke tension as you go along. I do this once per turn when I'm building wheels (i.e. take up tension all around the wheel, then stress relieve). It's done by grabbing parallell spoke pairs and squeezing. A decent pair of work gloves is essential, it hurts after a while.

(Edit: People stress relieve wheels in lots of ways - #2 here is just the way I do mine).

 

[Downward]

Hi Sorry to hijack but my front wheel seems to have a slight buckle - very noticeable now with skinnier tyres.

It has Disc brakes but these are not rubbing so the wheel must be spinning straight ish ??

Any ideas ??

 

[lukesdad]

Yeah you ve got abuckled wheel. The disc rotor is secured to the hub and is independent of the spokes.