SRAM 12 speed set up - chain skipping

[Ajax Bay]

Guys - please do not feed the children.
They haven't lived in the world of 12sp cassettes/sprockets (nor me) and try to extrapolate their experience. Which is fine until they feel the need to share. I recommend that they made more use of "I imagine that . . . " and, when an adult says 'no sonny', avoided then trying to bolster their imagination by exploring (on t'net) this new world and quoting the "first hit" as gospel and 'evidence' ("brainybiker" I ask you, and clearly for Shimano 11sp chain).

This seems an authoritative source of SRAM chain knowledge:
https://docs.sram.com/en-US/publications/6sfLCOGTn6FE98W8vXLqm0/UM - Chains#hashItem=t-type-transmission

 

[peter-h]

What a patronising post.

 

[Webbo2]

What a patronising post.

No it’s not he’s referring to Silva who says he grinds down his sprockets and uses a motorbike chain on his pedal cycle.

 

[Ajax Bay]

What a patronising post.

My dear young chap
If you review this thread you'll see I have tried to be super-helpful (in fact I asked the mods to pull this into its own thread after you (new here) hijacked the other one). I've also gone to the other forum you linked and pulled useful additional detail from your posts there to help us. A moment's consideration/review would've allowed you to realise that 'twas not thee to whom I referred.

I don't live in the world of 12sp cassettes/sprockets, as I said (I live very happily in the @mickle hovel).
I've seen a 12sp cassette: my daughter is paid well to use one on all her bikes, and other Shimano stuff - she would not touch SRAM with a bargepole.
@chriswoody does and he's offered advice. I'm also not going to marvel at the age of anyone who rides a $4000 12speed 1x e-MTB, because you've asked us not to, even if they "wonder whether [they] should change to a 10 speed".
If you want to enjoy some of silva's trolling / stream of consciousness then for a first tasting session I recommend 'Snapped Spindle" - allow a few minutes to read that thread!
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/snapped-spindle.309571/

 

[peter-h]

OK; sorry. I didn't refresh the pages correctly across the page breaks.

Is SRAM 12-speed stuff really junk compared to Shimano? Also, on this bike, can one fit Shimano?

I find this 29" bike rides on dirt and rocks much better than my previous 26" bike. It was bought in 2022 when MTB prices were going through the roof due to covid. They crashed soon afterwards but I noticed the manufacturers de-specced the bikes a bit in many cases. Of course 3.5k was a ripoff...

 

[peter-h]

Having put the old chain back on, I get frequent skipping on the smallest gear and much less frequent on the next one up. Moving that link around has not changed this; unsurprisingly since it looks exactly symmetrical.

So suddenly the bike has become hard to ride. So I am going to change the whole lot now (cassette, chain and the front gear). Not sure I have all the tools needed so could be off the road for a while while waiting for stuff to turn up. Is there anyone near Brighton who could help if I get stuck, for some £££?

But I wonder what the cause might be of the old chain suddenly skipping. The only other thing I did was to remove, clean up and replace the two derailleur gears. Their bearings seem ok but I wonder whether a slight wobble (in the upper gear, which directs the chain onto the appropriate cassette gear) might cause chain skipping? I can get new ones; they are not expensive. They have ceramic bearings which don't need lubing.

 

[chriswoody]

Is SRAM 12-speed stuff really junk compared to Shimano?

Cyclists can get really tribal about some things, for example, just look on this forum for any posts about GPS devices and see the arguments about Garmin vs Wahoo. Ajax bay mentions his daughter, it sounds like to me she is a professional rider with very different needs and requirements to me as a leisure rider, so whilst I respect her opinion, it most likely will come from a different place than mine.

Both Shimano and SRAM make fantastic equipment, modern drivetrains are amazing compared to years ago. Whilst I don't have direct experience of modern Shimano components, my impression is Shimano make finely engineered equipment akin to a Swiss Watch, whereas SRAM is a little cruder and simpler, though no less efficient. SRAM, I feel, has also been much more innovative over the last decade or so. They introduced and refined the modern 1x drivetrains, created the UDH (Universal Derailleur Hanger) and open sourced it so any one, including Shimano, could use it, created the first dedicated Gravel bike drivetrain in 2016 and a whole bunch of other stuff. It's no secret that I favour SRAM over Shimano, but I wouldn't say one is superior to the other, just different.

One of the big draws of SRAM for me, is it's simpler engineering. SRAM themselves produce fantastic tech documents, with clear crisp photographs and text that allow you to work on your components. The downside though is the fact that they won't supply the spares. Take their brifters for example, below is a photo of my SRAM Rival one brifter in pieces.

See the red piece of plastic? A common weak point on these brifters, easy to access and replace, however SRAM refuse to sell it as a spare part. Here I was modifying the brifter and changing the 11 speed ratchet for a custom made 12 speed one as well us upgrading the plastic part to an aluminium one. The parts were supplied by Ratio Technology who make and supply a range of parts for SRAM drivetrains and this level of customisation and fettling is impossible with Shimano because of the complexity of their parts.

on this bike, can one fit Shimano?

Simple answer, no. Not without changing your rear wheel to one with a Shimano compatible hub and then spend a huge amount of money on buying all the drivetrain parts.

clean up and replace the two derailleur gears

Do you mean the pulley wheels in the rear derailleur? This is new information. The pulley wheels are directional, they are only designed to work one way round. This page from the relevant tech doc should explain what I mean, make sure the U and L letter are facing the correct way. again incorrect orientation will mess up the smooth running of the drivetrain.

 

[peter-h]

Gosh thanks for that. To me they looked exactly symmetrical. I did get the little washers the right way round; they have a tiny flange on them.

That's another thing with this SRAM 12 speed stuff. In the past I used to just buy these wheels on Ebay etc, fit them and everything worked. But that wasn't 12 speed. That said, I cannot see any misalignment on the position of the upper one, versus the cassette.

 

[chriswoody]

Don't worry it's caught me out before as well. It's because of the 1x system, the teeth are specially shaped to engage really tightly with the chain and prevent it from jumping off the chainring as well as make the shifting more precise.

It could also be worth investing in a B Gap alignment tool. They are only a couple of quid and make checking the B Gap an absolute doddle as well as piece of mind that that is not an issue. I'd never touched the B Screw on the Derailleur since the bike was bought brand new, then a couple of years into ownership it was being a bit temperamental. Whilst all the alignment looked perfect to the eye, when I checked it with the B Gap tool, I found it was out of alignment. A quick tweak and all was well again.

All these things are only small issues, but easy to check and when you are aware of them it's easy to keep on top of.