Stealth tax

[GrasB]

I'm with the limiting technology idea here, remove the option to exceed speed limits, then we can focus resources on better driving and appropriate speed.

Before we go near speed limiting, tbh just remove the driver completely imo, we need a technology that can accurately sense which road you're on. I've come across a fair few occasions where GPSs can't work out if you're on the new multi-lane A-road or the old local roads running parallel to the new one.

 

[MacB]

Before we go near speed limiting, tbh just remove the driver completely imo, we need a technology that can accurately sense which road you're on. I've come across a fair few occasions where GPSs can't work out if you're on the new multi-lane A-road or the old local roads running parallel to the new one.

I like the idea of removing the driver but that technology isn't there yet, whereas limiting stuff is.

 

[PBancroft]

Before we go near speed limiting, tbh just remove the driver completely imo, we need a technology that can accurately sense which road you're on. I've come across a fair few occasions where GPSs can't work out if you're on the new multi-lane A-road or the old local roads running parallel to the new one.

But can it/could it reliably sense hazards? The deep pothole, or the cyclist who is swerving to avoid it? The old fellow who steps out into the road without looking? The horserider with a nervous steed?

No thanks, I'd rather be in control or pass the control to another human being, as flawed as that option may be. The rules need to be stricter, but once automation creeps in I'll keep out.

 

[Davidc]

I'm totally unconvinced by arguments against draonian sentencing and strict enforcement.

It's the only way most speeders will do as they're required to do.

My suggestion above is me being mild. 30.03 in a 30 limit = off the road for a year, huge fine (2 months gross salary if you like Thomas - that's proportional to income then) and the car crushed.

After the first couple were reported, with great gnashing of teeth and wailing, by the DM we'd have little or no speeding and much safer roads. There would probably be fewer people prosecuted for speeding than there are now.

Same penalty for using a mobile phone, not signalling correctly, and many other offences.

It won't happen - lives are less important in Britain than the right to drive as you wish where you wish.

(I know I'm an extremist - and I'll stay that way).

 

[joebingo]

Or, you could just hang everyone who drives a car to a slightly poor standard, David.

 

[MacB]

I'm totally unconvinced by arguments against draonian sentencing and strict enforcement.

It's the only way most speeders will do as they're required to do.

My suggestion above is me being mild. 30.03 in a 30 limit = off the road for a year, huge fine (2 months gross salary if you like Thomas - that's proportional to income then) and the car crushed.

After the first couple were reported, with great gnashing of teeth and wailing, by the DM we'd have little or no speeding and much safer roads. There would probably be fewer people prosecuted for speeding than there are now.

Same penalty for using a mobile phone, not signalling correctly, and many other offences.

It won't happen - lives are less important in Britain than the right to drive as you wish where you wish.

(I know I'm an extremist - and I'll stay that way).

I can agree with the principle but I don't like the focus this would place on speed control. My concern would be attention diverted away from the road. This is why I'd use limiting technology to exclude speeding as an option. I did this to death on another thread so won't revisit entirely here

But once limiting technology was in place I'd happily place you in charge of all other traffic offences

 

[Davidc]

I can agree with the principle but I don't like the focus this would place on speed control. My concern would be attention diverted away from the road. This is why I'd use limiting technology to exclude speeding as an option. I did this to death on another thread so won't revisit entirely here

But once limiting technology was in place I'd happily place you in charge of all other traffic offences

I think I may have joined you! I listed about a dozen offences that would get the same treatment.

I have no issue with speed limiters. There's one on my car and I have it engaged much of the time when in 30 and 40 limits. It would be exellent if the technology was available to operate it automatically. If for good reason I need to disengage it quickly there's a kickdown function which does it.

I just don't think we should allow anyone on the road if they can't follow the rules which are there to protect all road users = practically everyone.

 

[downfader]

If you argue for removing driver controls then surely yu could equally be arguing for better public transport systems?

Just a thought, but if we really did want an autopilot then surely its better to have someone else incontrol?

 

[Dilbert]

The problem with speed cameras is that they have become the main Road Traffic Enforcement tool to the detriment of using police officers to target bad driving. On the rare occasions police officers are sent out they just seem to rack up more speeders. Cameras don't deter the increasing number of European drivers on our roads because its to much like hard work for Camera Partnerships to pursue them, or the increasing number of people with false number plates etc.

Speed limits are also entirely random, my street which is narrow with cars down both sides has the same limit (30mph) as the main dual carriage way leaving town. 29 Mph up my street is lunacy but its within the limit.

It is bad driving that causes most accidents, not speed, although excessive speed will normally make things worse, it is only the cause in a minority of accidents and even then it is often excessive for the conditions not the speed limit. More focus on driver training and harsher punishment for sins of commission such as mobile phone use, excessive speed or dangerous overtaking are required. Doing loads of people for doing 30.00001 Mph will simply lead to the courts being clogged with appeals about equipment calibration and the road safety message will be lost forever.

 

[mcshroom]

If speed cameras are a stealth tax then I wish all stealth taxes were the same, then I wouldn't pay any.

Speeding is an issue that cars have had almost since the point that flag carriers in front were removed, but for some reason it has never been socially unacceptable, even with the efforts of campaigns like 'Think!'. The issue with speeding though should not, IMHO be a case of increasing the punishments or lowering speed limits per say, but rather that of enforcing the limits that are already there. I would suggest that the following would make a greater impression on speeding than draconian punishments that would make more law abiding drivers feel under siege and may encourage more people to see the limit as the target and not think abaout driving at a safe speed for the conditions.

Speed cameras
With respect to speed cameras, I would suggest two 'improvements'. Firstly on roads with limited entry/exit points (like motorways) it should be simple enough to install ave. speed cameras at each junction. This would mean that the whole motorway system could be kept at speed limits, and would have the added benefit of allowing variable speed limits to be introduced like those on the M42. Secondly why not camourflage the speed cameras instead of painting them bright yellow. This would make it far harder to 'camera surf'.

Speed limits
I would favour the lowering of 30mph limits to 20mph in post urban areas rather than lowering 60mph to 50mph roads. Firstly there are far more non-motorist users of urban roads than rural roads and also from a purely personal motive lowering speed limits on trunk roads in areas like Cumbria where motorways don't exist would leave us even more cut off than we already are.

What may be an intereting trick would be to switch from mph to km/h, as from trips to the continent I feel psycologically it feels like you are going faster at the same actual speed.

Others
I would be perfectly happy with changing a speeding offence to 4 points from 3, and removing the "I need a car for my job" defence at court for those who hit 12 points. Would it also be sensible to have a scale of points and fines depending on where and when a speeding offence occured, as it is more dangerous to speed at some times and in some places than others (though all speeding and is just as wrong)

Also enforcing a defensive driving course to be taught to all drivers, including those who already hold licenses, and introducing more shared space areas to remove the defining and percieved ownership of certain areas of the road would both be benifical IMHO.

 

[thomas]

Except that you are more likely to be involved in a crash the faster you are going. You have much less time to react, and require much greater stopping times and distances.

Going faster doesn't increase the probability of having a crash. Just, the faster you're going, the worst the crash may be.

Before we go near speed limiting, tbh just remove the driver completely imo, we need a technology that can accurately sense which road you're on. I've come across a fair few occasions where GPSs can't work out if you're on the new multi-lane A-road or the old local roads running parallel to the new one.

Removing the driver is fine, until the person who owns the car decides to do the service them self. 'Self-driven' cars are not at a stage to be practical.

Doing loads of people for doing 30.00001 Mph will simply lead to the courts being clogged with appeals about equipment calibration and the road safety message will be lost forever.

Couldn't agree more...David's comments on making a making someone who does 0.03mph over the speed limit loose 2 months salary, the ability to drive for a year and another few thousand pounds worth of car is ridiculous. It's a worst punishment that you'd get for robbery or assault.

I would much rather be overtaken by someone doing 30.03mph, who is paying lots of attention to the road, than hit by someone doing 29mph, who is paying attention only to their speed.

Speeding doesn't kill. Excessive speed does. A lack of anticipation does.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I'm totally unconvinced by arguments against draonian sentencing and strict enforcement.

It's the only way most speeders will do as they're required to do.

My suggestion above is me being mild. 30.03 in a 30 limit = off the road for a year, huge fine (2 months gross salary if you like Thomas - that's proportional to income then) and the car crushed.

While I agree in principle - I've always driven to the limit and not to the cameras - is your speedo really accurate to two decimal places? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

 

[thomas]

While I agree in principle - I've always driven to the limit and not to the cameras - is your speedo really accurate to two decimal places? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Even if it is, my foot isn't. Occasionally, however hard I'm trying I might hit 31mph for a moment. I certainly wouldn't expect to loose thousands for pounds for it. If however someone was doing 70mph in a 30 then certainly take their licence away and fine them all you want. No excuse.

 

[PBancroft]

Going faster doesn't increase the probability of having a crash. Just, the faster you're going, the worst the crash may be.

No, sorry. You're wrong.

Or rather, you're not entirely right. Speed does increase the likelihood of a crash for the reasons I outlined in my post and more. However you are correct - it also makes the "accident" that much worse.

 

[snorri]

rather than lowering 60mph to 50mph roads. Firstly there are far more non-motorist users of urban roads than rural roads and also from a purely personal motive lowering speed limits on trunk roads in areas like Cumbria where motorways don't exist would leave us even more cut off than we already are.

Lowering trunk road speed limits is required in locations where the trunk road is the only viable link between communities, the present limits act as a serious disincentive to the active traveller.