Stopping a daft overtake
- Thread starter magnatom
- Start date
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bryce
Senior Member
- Location
- London, SW10
Why were you in the middle of the lane Mags? Turning right soon? Perhaps if you'd both given eachother some more space to manoeuvre, maybe the situation wouldn't have arisen. I don't think it's fair to label the guy an 'idiot' though, just because he misjudged the gap and mucked the overtake. People make mistakes - and fair cop that he backed off.
Origamist
Legendary Member
We don't actually know if it was the "back off" hand gesture that stopped the overtake - it could have been the shouting and/or the repeated backward glances (or a combination of any of the three).
FWIW, I don't regularly signal to other road users in the manner of the OP (I remember gesturing to a driver last winter when it was icy to back off and I recall doing somthing similar to a tail-gating coach a year or two ago) as I like to keep my hands on the bars wherever possible.
JoysOfSight
Active Member
[QUOTE 1166114"]They probably think you are turning right, motorists don't actually understand 'it' they just think you are going to do something else and this is bad practise out on a bike.[/quote]
Don't follow this - the signal has the desired outcome, how can it be bad practice? It's not as if motorists are going to start overtaking right-signalling cyclists because they think you were "only" giving a back-off signal, is it?
Besides, the official meaning of the right hand out is "I intend to move out to the right, or turn right". Using your hand to signal to a following motorist that you want them out of the space alongside you fits with that pretty well.
Don't follow this - the signal has the desired outcome, how can it be bad practice? It's not as if motorists are going to start overtaking right-signalling cyclists because they think you were "only" giving a back-off signal, is it?
Besides, the official meaning of the right hand out is "I intend to move out to the right, or turn right". Using your hand to signal to a following motorist that you want them out of the space alongside you fits with that pretty well.
I cycle in the middle here as I am attempting to stop close overtakes. This is a section where (as you can see from the video) that I keep up with traffic. Therefore, in common with surrounding traffic I take the lane.
In the past I took a more secondary position. I found it unacceptable to have a car passing me at 40mph within a foot, when I myself am doing 30mph. My road position in general prevents this, and as the traffic generally flows freely here, and the outside lane is often free, it tends not to hold anyone up.
Of course cycling in the middle does not stop every poor overtake, but if that does happen I have plenty of escape space, as illustrated in the video.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
I'm with Magnatom here, I largely also take primary along the dual carriageways I ride on. They look at least superficially similar to the one in Magnatom's video.
I certainly don't use it often, but it felt appropriate at the time. I know the road well, and know that, unusually for Glasgow, the surface is good and in this situation I know I can control my bike well with one hand if I feel that my other hand is better employed elsewhere (oo-er!).
It certainly had the desired effect, and although you are right we can never be sure if the hand gesture made the difference in this particular instance, experience tells me that it did.
[QUOTE 1166128"]
But it's an incorrect signal why is this so hard to understand? You should not have to give a 'back off' signal your obs and position should give you everything you need to not get caught out with a close overtake.
[/quote]
you are absolutely right. You should not have to use this signal. In reality, you do.
But it's an incorrect signal why is this so hard to understand? You should not have to give a 'back off' signal your obs and position should give you everything you need to not get caught out with a close overtake.
[/quote]
you are absolutely right. You should not have to use this signal. In reality, you do.
[QUOTE 1166131"]
Now we are getting somewhere, instead of putting out your hand could you have touched the brakes slightly and move over to the left a bit? Surely this is a bit safer then looking to your right with one hand on the bar and the other out 'signalling'.
[/quote]
In my opinion, no. In the video as he starts his manouver the van to my right actually starts slowing a little, and I start catching up. I have stopped pedaling at this point. Therefore, by braking I would not extend the gap, only maintain it, unless I braked sharply, which given the wet conditions was not the best option.
Now we are getting somewhere, instead of putting out your hand could you have touched the brakes slightly and move over to the left a bit? Surely this is a bit safer then looking to your right with one hand on the bar and the other out 'signalling'.
[/quote]
In my opinion, no. In the video as he starts his manouver the van to my right actually starts slowing a little, and I start catching up. I have stopped pedaling at this point. Therefore, by braking I would not extend the gap, only maintain it, unless I braked sharply, which given the wet conditions was not the best option.
[QUOTE 1166134"]
Why have I never then? Could it be there that there is no need? When you do see something like this is about to happen you simply move over the left into the space that is there because you are in secondary?
[/quote]
I don't know Lee. Perhaps your threshold for a close pass is lower than mine. Perhaps you don't have any similar dual carriage-ways that are fast flowing and downhill. Perhaps drivers tend to be later for work in Glasgow than London. Who knows?
Why have I never then? Could it be there that there is no need? When you do see something like this is about to happen you simply move over the left into the space that is there because you are in secondary?
[/quote]
I don't know Lee. Perhaps your threshold for a close pass is lower than mine. Perhaps you don't have any similar dual carriage-ways that are fast flowing and downhill. Perhaps drivers tend to be later for work in Glasgow than London. Who knows?
Origamist
Legendary Member
Indeed, Magnatom could justifiably argue he was signalling right and, as a consequence of this, the driver sensibly aborted the overtake.
[QUOTE 1166139"]
Come off it. I'm not talking about doing an emergency stop. You could braked easily if you wanted to. You go on about the wet conditions yet there you are with your arm out looking to the right?
[/quote]
Indeed. I have mastered the skill of holding my arm out in the wet. Have you not Lee? Better get some lessons then.
Come off it. I'm not talking about doing an emergency stop. You could braked easily if you wanted to. You go on about the wet conditions yet there you are with your arm out looking to the right?
[/quote]
Indeed. I have mastered the skill of holding my arm out in the wet. Have you not Lee? Better get some lessons then.
[QUOTE 1166139"]
Come off it. I'm not talking about doing an emergency stop. You could braked easily if you wanted to. You go on about the wet conditions yet there you are with your arm out looking to the right?
[/quote]
Oh and as I have said before, non-emergency braking would not have reduced the gap between me and the van in time, due to the van slowing. A close dangerous pass would have occurred.
Come off it. I'm not talking about doing an emergency stop. You could braked easily if you wanted to. You go on about the wet conditions yet there you are with your arm out looking to the right?
[/quote]
Oh and as I have said before, non-emergency braking would not have reduced the gap between me and the van in time, due to the van slowing. A close dangerous pass would have occurred.
