Sustrans Supporters.

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BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
Another, here, one who buys their maps.

I/we do use their routes, occasionally. The biggest problem I find, when using unfamiliar routes, is an absence of any indication of their suitability. Some are only really suitable for dedicated and capable mountain bikers (IMHO). Not got a problem with that, but, it would be nice to know BEFORE encountering such rough stretches, and, getting earache from SWMBO.
 
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As mentioned, been out of cycling for a decade or more, now getting back in. Its interesting Sustrans has come up, as I realised in the last few days that despite reading forums more in the last month or so and reading daily newspapers over my missing decade, Sustrans do not seem to get mentioned much. At one time they seemed to be everywhere in the news, sometimes doing good stuff, often doing bits I disagreed with - I found them very marmite on some subjects, particularly when I realised it was basically a closed shop privately run 'club' almost, with no voting on any aspects permitted for paying members, who appeared to be mostly viewed as cash cows and free labour (yes, I realise volunteers enjoy doing stuff). The new chairperson (?) way back then seemed to be just crowned by the previous one, at least as far as I understood at the time, with limited if any input from anyone else. It came across as a private club run and controlled entirely by the founder. It really put me off ever joining or giving money, which I had been considering before I came across this info and attitude. I had started looking into volunteering as a section ranger for a length of road. Please feel free to correct me if I have got any of this Sustrans history wrong, as I would quite like to be wrong. I also seem to remember the chairpersons / owners (?) salary was thought to be quite significant for the era and job.

Is it I am just not noticing news from Sustrans, has their campaigning (other than Chuggers stopping people) become low key or perhaps they don't have such good media contacts now? I know public funding of things has reduced but there still seems to be some money for cycling, more so than for many other public interests.

Sustrans had an office in Bristol, near the cathedral and as a far as I know still do (again, correct me if wrong). In fairness, this used to be great as a facility - at one time they had a whole wall of bike route leaflets and maps printed by the various regional councils and suchlike. You could just go through the door, browse around the 'routes' wall and discover likely trips and holidays, taking away for free the ones of most interest (as the local councils had printed them) with more complex stuff for sale. They seemed to have quite a few employees behind the counter at desks, but browsing the routes did not need interaction. Sadly one day when I went in, all the routes had been moved to an area behind the desk so they could not be browsed, now you had to ask for individual routes and really already needed to know what areas you were interested in rather than getting inspiration, so I stopped using that service. Fortunately the councils have mostly made bike route downloads accessible via their own websites now.

At some point in the dim distant past I went and looked at the Sustrans website for their own routes and found they were charging for downloads (no idea what the position is now) when they used to give printed (more expensive to produce than downloads) away for free. At the time that seemed very greedy as there was still a lot of cycling funding about, paid for by the public ultimately.

Then somewhat more recently there was that thing in the news about them taking down signage as routes no longer fitting recent criteria, leaving no links between sections etc. The criteria seemed a bit silly given the difficulties of the UK roads. I think that was the last I personally heard of Sustrans, as I was no longer visiting bike forums and saw them mentioned no where else.

I never bother with Sustrans now, so am utterly ignorant of what they do now, but the more I found out about them the more I felt wary of them. I wished they had more competition from other cycling charities/associations at the time rather than being the automatic 'go to', especially with the historic narrow management as the lack of competition (and Sustrans not being a public body or open board of any kind, at least then) seemed a bit unhealthy.

I would also wish to say how much I appreciate all the masses of work done by volunteers via Sustrans and for all the funding from local councils / public tax etc as the volunteers and public funding have created some very nice cycling facilities over the years.

As I said, was a long time back for me and Sustrans may be very changed/improved by now, do update me where appropriate.
 
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When I put East of England, I get 26 results and many of them in Essex. Are you on "Find a route on the National Cycle Network"?

In any case you must have seen signs like this:

View attachment 726158
Thank you @tripletail52
That's because in the next drop down box i put"traffic free" which only came up with the four results.Which i suppose thinking about it now was a bit daft seeing I've only got a road bike.
 

geocycle

Legendary Member
I used to be a supporter, mainly due to the long distance challenge rides. I credit things like the C2C as getting me into cycling for pleasure as well as utility. I’ve done most of their long routes. 20 years ago they were doing lots of things well with the ambitious NCN and some useful urban schemes. There were frustrations with contrived routing and some poor quality infrastructure as a result of local negotiations. I stayed with them for a lot of years but cancelled when the decision to stop signing the whole network.
 
Sustrans are operating as an undemocratic quango.
The Government are giving them money to dole out to local authorities as part of the Active Travel/Levelling Up agenda.

I've reviewed some of the audits they have completed for the Local Authority here as part of the Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plan.
And I've seen what is considered a 'top grade' cycle route. It's heavily submerged, again, at the moment and I would say not ideal for a novice rider.

I've been using more of the NCN in this neck of the woods than ever lately. Things don't seem much better than they were 10 or 15 years ago. I am interested to see what the new LTN1/20 inspired cycling infrastructure looks like as it's completed over the next year or so, that Sustrans have consulted on, but I suspect attempting to use it will still result in yielding at every single junction and still marginalise cyclists.

Apologies for having what I think might be an unpopular opinion.
 
D

Deleted member 121159

Guest
Sustrans are operating as an undemocratic quango.
The Government are giving them money to dole out to local authorities as part of the Active Travel/Levelling Up agenda.

I've reviewed some of the audits they have completed for the Local Authority here as part of the Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plan.
And I've seen what is considered a 'top grade' cycle route. It's heavily submerged, again, at the moment and I would say not ideal for a novice rider.

I've been using more of the NCN in this neck of the woods than ever lately. Things don't seem much better than they were 10 or 15 years ago. I am interested to see what the new LTN1/20 inspired cycling infrastructure looks like as it's completed over the next year or so, that Sustrans have consulted on, but I suspect attempting to use it will still result in yielding at every single junction and still marginalise cyclists.

Apologies for having what I think might be an unpopular opinion.

How democratic are organisations like Sustrans supposed to be in the first place? Not looking to disagree for the sake of it, but trying to learn. There are so many charities all with different aims and agendas, and I barely know what they are yet they receive some public funding. Aren't we leaving most of the decision regarding funding to our elected authorities because as individual citizens we can't possibly scrutinise every charity there is?
 
OP
OP
Slick

Slick

Guru
Sustrans are operating as an undemocratic quango.
The Government are giving them money to dole out to local authorities as part of the Active Travel/Levelling Up agenda.

I've reviewed some of the audits they have completed for the Local Authority here as part of the Local Cycling and Walking Infrastructure Plan.
And I've seen what is considered a 'top grade' cycle route. It's heavily submerged, again, at the moment and I would say not ideal for a novice rider.

I've been using more of the NCN in this neck of the woods than ever lately. Things don't seem much better than they were 10 or 15 years ago. I am interested to see what the new LTN1/20 inspired cycling infrastructure looks like as it's completed over the next year or so, that Sustrans have consulted on, but I suspect attempting to use it will still result in yielding at every single junction and still marginalise cyclists.

Apologies for having what I think might be an unpopular opinion.

I don't think your opinion will be unpopular, especially if you have reviewed their audit trail.
 
OP
OP
Slick

Slick

Guru
As mentioned, been out of cycling for a decade or more, now getting back in. Its interesting Sustrans has come up, as I realised in the last few days that despite reading forums more in the last month or so and reading daily newspapers over my missing decade, Sustrans do not seem to get mentioned much. At one time they seemed to be everywhere in the news, sometimes doing good stuff, often doing bits I disagreed with - I found them very marmite on some subjects, particularly when I realised it was basically a closed shop privately run 'club' almost, with no voting on any aspects permitted for paying members, who appeared to be mostly viewed as cash cows and free labour (yes, I realise volunteers enjoy doing stuff). The new chairperson (?) way back then seemed to be just crowned by the previous one, at least as far as I understood at the time, with limited if any input from anyone else. It came across as a private club run and controlled entirely by the founder. It really put me off ever joining or giving money, which I had been considering before I came across this info and attitude. I had started looking into volunteering as a section ranger for a length of road. Please feel free to correct me if I have got any of this Sustrans history wrong, as I would quite like to be wrong. I also seem to remember the chairpersons / owners (?) salary was thought to be quite significant for the era and job.

Is it I am just not noticing news from Sustrans, has their campaigning (other than Chuggers stopping people) become low key or perhaps they don't have such good media contacts now? I know public funding of things has reduced but there still seems to be some money for cycling, more so than for many other public interests.

Sustrans had an office in Bristol, near the cathedral and as a far as I know still do (again, correct me if wrong). In fairness, this used to be great as a facility - at one time they had a whole wall of bike route leaflets and maps printed by the various regional councils and suchlike. You could just go through the door, browse around the 'routes' wall and discover likely trips and holidays, taking away for free the ones of most interest (as the local councils had printed them) with more complex stuff for sale. They seemed to have quite a few employees behind the counter at desks, but browsing the routes did not need interaction. Sadly one day when I went in, all the routes had been moved to an area behind the desk so they could not be browsed, now you had to ask for individual routes and really already needed to know what areas you were interested in rather than getting inspiration, so I stopped using that service. Fortunately the councils have mostly made bike route downloads accessible via their own websites now.

At some point in the dim distant past I went and looked at the Sustrans website for their own routes and found they were charging for downloads (no idea what the position is now) when they used to give printed (more expensive to produce than downloads) away for free. At the time that seemed very greedy as there was still a lot of cycling funding about, paid for by the public ultimately.

Then somewhat more recently there was that thing in the news about them taking down signage as routes no longer fitting recent criteria, leaving no links between sections etc. The criteria seemed a bit silly given the difficulties of the UK roads. I think that was the last I personally heard of Sustrans, as I was no longer visiting bike forums and saw them mentioned no where else.

I never bother with Sustrans now, so am utterly ignorant of what they do now, but the more I found out about them the more I felt wary of them. I wished they had more competition from other cycling charities/associations at the time rather than being the automatic 'go to', especially with the historic narrow management as the lack of competition (and Sustrans not being a public body or open board of any kind, at least then) seemed a bit unhealthy.

I would also wish to say how much I appreciate all the masses of work done by volunteers via Sustrans and for all the funding from local councils / public tax etc as the volunteers and public funding have created some very nice cycling facilities over the years.

As I said, was a long time back for me and Sustrans may be very changed/improved by now, do update me where appropriate.

Kind of my perception as well, and didn't Sustrans start in Bristol?
 

albion

Guru
Location
South Tyneside
How democratic are organisations like Sustrans supposed to be in the first place? Not looking to disagree for the sake of it, but trying to learn. There are so many charities all with different aims and agendas, and I barely know what they are yet they receive some public funding. Aren't we leaving most of the decision regarding funding to our elected authorities because as individual citizens we can't possibly scrutinise every charity there is?

Indeed
 

albion

Guru
Location
South Tyneside
What is frustrating is that they seem to have zero proactivity, it all needing to be costed/paid for.

My attempts to get them to be more helpful with signage, especially with regards to the Thirlmere debacle all resulted in abject failure.
United Utilities were the same even though one main, offending misleading sign, was right outside their Thirlmere premises.
The near impassible Ponteland section has no doubt been like that since time began yet never a murmur.
 
What is frustrating is that they seem to have zero proactivity, it all needing to be costed/paid for.

My attempts to get them to be more helpful with signage, especially with regards to the Thirlmere debacle all resulted in abject failure.
United Utilities were the same even though one main, offending misleading sign, was right outside their Thirlmere premises.
The near impassible Ponteland section has no doubt been like that since time began yet never a murmur.

This debacle?

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-live-blog-17-january-2024-306229

That's the latest I could find from Road.cc, I've also seen postsfrom CyclingUK about it but nothing from Sustrans:whistle:
 

albion

Guru
Location
South Tyneside
Gets more insane by the day. Not Sustrans fault. United Utilities has been trying to shut it for many a year.
And obviously it is far more dangerous for horses than pedestrians and cyclists.

UU certainly needs renationalising. Probably for the directors own safety. As they are failing to comply with Thirlmere creation obligation surely a £1million fine per week would suffice. An easy election winner too!

Cars like to use that road. However it is unnecessary for them, unlike cyclists and pedestrians.
 
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albion

Guru
Location
South Tyneside
Sustrans are operating as an undemocratic quango.

They are a charity, stability being important. Look at the National Trust which has an ongoing attempted takeover attempt situation.

Some strange stuff going on at Thirlmere too. That road has been closed a few years, with possibly a short open window before that.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/6174752405981452/user/100000291962639

Yet here a Paul Hatton involved with the campaign claims it has only been closed since January.
 
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