Tank dilemma

[Yellow Fang]

British tank command sometimes used to put in 1 Firefly with 3 Cromwells, but that was not entirely satisfactory because of their different speeds and the need to maintain and carry parts for two different types of tank. Putting in 1 Firefly with 3 other Shermans seems to make sense. The casualty rates for Fireflys were not any worse than for other Shermans because they kept back looking out Tigers and Panthers, while the other Shermans went in and blew things up. I don't know what a Cromwell group was supposed to do if it came across a Tiger. If it were me, I'd want to make like an Italian tank and radio the position of the Tiger so that a Typhoon could knock it out. I feel sorry for the Yanks. It took them five Shermans to knock out a Tiger, four to keep it occupied while another crept round behind it.

There was an incredible progress in engineering during WW2, but allied tanks appeared to have lagged behind compared to planes. The Cromwells were about 2 years late, and the Comet was too late to make much of a difference.

 

[byegad]

The Shermans were called Tommy Cookers by the Afrika Korps. Because they cooked Tommies.

However British WWII tank crews were not fans of the Cromwell, it wasn't that much more reliable, had the same gun as the standard British Sherman. But that they were absolute pigs to get out of in a hurry. The American average sized tank crew being slightly bigger than his British counterpart, the Yanks made the hatches that bit bigger.

Many a crew on both sides got out of stricken tanks in WWII, they were expected to make their way back on foot and get another tank, rather than fight on as infantry. One writer tells of his best friend, a fellow tank commander going back down the road in Normandy for his thirteenth Sherman as he drove his fifth of the week since D day in the other direction. Sadly his friend died in number thirteen along with his crew.

 

[swee'pea99]

Just as well, as the hoped for British steel was longer in coming to service than anticipated

Really? Hard to believe...

 

[Fab Foodie]

Tank museum at Bovington is well worth a visit.

 

[Dirk]

Tank museum at Bovington is well worth a visit.

I went there in June - great day out.

 

[Tail End Charlie]

Tank museum at Bovington is well worth a visit.

Great, I was just about to ask that!

A couple of years ago I got to wondering how a Tiger tank was started (as you do). I had always thought that there'd be some sort of ancillary engine which would then turn the main engine. I got the Haynes manual (which is very good and all about the working one at the tank museum) and it turns out you basically start it like a car. Switch on, turn the key, or button and away you go.

 

[midlife]

British tank command sometimes used to put in 1 Firefly with 3 Cromwells, but that was not entirely satisfactory because of their different speeds and the need to maintain and carry parts for two different types of tank. Putting in 1 Firefly with 3 other Shermans seems to make sense. The casualty rates for Fireflys were not any worse than for other Shermans because they kept back looking out Tigers and Panthers, while the other Shermans went in and blew things up. I don't know what a Cromwell group was supposed to do if it came across a Tiger. If it were me, I'd want to make like an Italian tank and radio the position of the Tiger so that a Typhoon could knock it out. I feel sorry for the Yanks. It took them five Shermans to knock out a Tiger, four to keep it occupied while another crept round behind it.

There was an incredible progress in engineering during WW2, but allied tanks appeared to have lagged behind compared to planes. The Cromwells were about 2 years late, and the Comet was too late to make much of a difference.

Not sure I'd call up a Typhoon, I thought that despite the shock and awe of their rockets they had a disappointing tank kill rate?

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

It took them five Shermans to knock out a Tiger, four to keep it occupied while another crept round behind it.
.

I've read that this was because it was standard practice to send 5 Shermans against any tank - from a Stug to a Tiger. The Sherman was an infantry support tank - if the infantry said there was a pillbox, machine gun nest or other static obstruction, a single Sherman would be sent in support. If a tank was reported then a full platoon of five Shermans was sent - but only if a Tank Destroyer was unavailable. TDs like the M10 and M18 were meant to take on tanks. As heavier tanks like the Pershing became available they were used.

Here's a famous example of a Panther destroying a Sherman before being destroyed itself by a Pershing - graphic


View: https://youtu.be/D6LqB-RYUvY

 

[Illaveago]

Great, I was just about to ask that!

A couple of years ago I got to wondering how a Tiger tank was started (as you do). I had always thought that there'd be some sort of ancillary engine which would then turn the main engine. I got the Haynes manual (which is very good and all about the working one at the tank museum) and it turns out you basically start it like a car. Switch on, turn the key, or button and away you go.

The Tiger engine sounds really smooth, they had it driving around at a Tank Fest some years ago. In comparison the Russian T34 sounded like a dumper truck.

 

[Drago]

T'is said that the T34 and 54 dropped over a kilo of swarf on their first oil change, so crudely were the motors machined.

 

[Profpointy]

have a look for David Fletcher's "tank chats" on youtube. He's the Bovingdon Tank Museum's resident expert. Some of their other curators' have done excellent "tank chats" too but Fletcher's are a bit special. David Fletcher's book on the Churchill is outstanding 2and all its dozen or so reviwes on Amazon are 5 star, including mine. Have bought a few of his other books simply because he's the author. Bit as I say, his youtube stuff is a joy. The Bovingdon Tank Museum is a superb day out and one of the best museums I've seen. My wife not-particularly-interested-in-tanks also enjoyed it so it's not wholly a geek thing.

 

[Drago]

Clearly people were much stronger back then.

 

[Tin Pot]

Shermans looks silly.

What was the armour thickness on the back of a Cromwell?

 

[gbb]

Great, I was just about to ask that!

A couple of years ago I got to wondering how a Tiger tank was started (as you do). I had always thought that there'd be some sort of ancillary engine which would then turn the main engine. I got the Haynes manual (which is very good and all about the working one at the tank museum) and it turns out you basically start it like a car. Switch on, turn the key, or button and away you go.

There's a hand cranking method too...although I suspect it's a magneto sommat or other creating the charge to get it going....

View: https://youtu.be/ROnb5ouBjNc

 

[gbb]

Tank museum at Bovington is well worth a visit.

As is the museum on the Isle of White. .can't remember what it's called eight now.