TdF Stage 14 SPOILER

[marinyork]

You must have heard a different interview to me. He made what he felt was a legitimate complaint (and he looked pretty p*ssed off when he crossed the line) and it was upheld. The punishment was out of his hands. I didn't hear any 'bragging' about it.

He made a complaint, he's allowed to do that (although I would say that play acting and basing the complaint on somebody else's unpopularity is unsportsmanly behaviour). Why he couldn't have shut his trap to journalists on the matter and why he had to open his mouth to berate someone on the finishing line again is very poor behaviour. This morning he interviewed better on it. So he wants the green jersey, good, he'd have probably have won the green jersey anyway and joined an elite bunch of riders to win it twice. Now he has degraded himself.

 

[Chuffy]

He made a complaint, he's allowed to do that (although I would say that play acting and basing the complaint on somebody else's unpopularity is unsportsmanly behaviour). Why he couldn't have shut his trap to journalists on the matter and why he had to open his mouth to berate someone on the finishing line again is very poor behaviour. This morning he interviewed better on it. So he wants the green jersey, good, he'd have probably have won the green jersey anyway and joined an elite bunch of riders to win it twice. Now he has degraded himself.

In what way was he 'playacting'?
In what way did he base his complaint on someone else lack of popularity?

Just a thought: if Cav wasn't one of ours, would we even be having this discussion?

 

[marinyork]

In what way was he 'playacting'?
In what way did he base his complaint on someone else lack of popularity?

Just a thought: if Cav wasn't one of ours, would we even be having this discussion?

I think Hushovd was playacting by cycling so close to the barrier and then whinging about it, the way he interviewed after certainly gave me that impression. The complaint was based on Cav's unpopularity. Other people have said it was pretty minor or the team should have been given a telling off, he was banking on the authorities agreeing that Cav had been bad tempered and needed taking down a peg (ironically behaviour Thor himself exhibited around this incident and on the finishing line twice).

Cav being from the IOM is immaterial, people are more likely to dislike homegrown arrogant people. There was a major change in the jersey competition, it was picked up straight away. As it was right at the front of the peleton and the two fighting it out for a jersey it would be big news whoever it was. I couldn't see the point, before him mouthing off on the line (again), I thought Hushovd had done quite well getting in there and only losing out on a point. Instead mr angry and vindictive comes out. Shame really as it takes away from his performance yesterday and also getting 13th going into to Besancon, which was pretty good, as Cav comes in however minutes later expecting to be ushered onto the podium for turning up late.

 

[Chuffy]

I think Hushovd was playacting by cycling so close to the barrier and then whinging about it, the way he interviewed after certainly gave me that impression.

So his whole sprint was an act? Come on, that's laughable!

The complaint was based on Cav's unpopularity. Other people have said it was pretty minor or the team should have been given a telling off, he was banking on the authorities agreeing that Cav had been bad tempered and needed taking down a peg (ironically behaviour Thor himself exhibited around this incident and on the finishing line twice).

I wanted an proper explanation, not a repetition of your point and a half-arsed assumption. Sorry, but that just doesn't stand up. Feel free to give us a properly evidenced case for Cav being unpopular along with evidence that Thor was playing on that lack of popularity.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Oh come on, Chuffy, you are letting your dislike of Cavendish get the better of you here.

I like both riders, but Thor basically realised that his only chance of making certain of the jersey was to get Cav disqualified on what was the last sprintable stage before Paris. You may regard this as very clever gamesmanship, but it was undoubtedly a tactic on his part. Perhaps that's all part of sprinting, but then Cav's 'move' (such as it was) was nothing compared to some of the apparently completely legal stuff we've seen in the past. Certainly it would not have got him relegated without Thor's display and the complaint.

And you know full well that there is no more 'evidence' for either your or our proposition apart from that already presented. This is a discussion entirely based on personal views of what took place, and your view is no more the 'default' or common sense view than mine or Marinyork's.

 

[rich p]

Well you have to assume that the commissaires don't base their rulings on a popularity contest! They apply the rules according to criteria and although the punishment seems a bit harsh in this instance I'm certain it wasn't because Hushovd and Feillu don't like Cav.

I haven't seen an official explanation but Colombia as a team were guilty of indiscretion at least, the way they rode that finish. Why did they bother anyway? Cav has shown he can outsprint TH even when he's wheelsucking.

 

[Chuffy]

Oh come on, Chuffy, you are letting your dislike of Cavendish get the better of you here.

I like both riders, but Thor basically realised that his only chance of making certain of the jersey was to get Cav disqualified on what was the last sprintable stage before Paris. You may regard this as very clever gamesmanship, but it was undoubtedly a tactic on his part. Perhaps that's all part of sprinting, but then Cav's 'move' (such as it was) was nothing compared to some of the apparently completely legal stuff we've seen in the past. Certainly it would not have got him relegated without Thor's display and the complaint.

And you know full well that there is no more 'evidence' for either your or our proposition apart from that already presented. This is a discussion entirely based on personal views of what took place, and your view is no more the 'default' or common sense view than mine or Marinyork's.

<sigh>
It's got nothing to do with what I think about Cav. It's got everything to do with the kneejerk assumptions, including yours, being made about Thor.

Thor basically realised that his only chance of making certain of the jersey was to get Cav disqualified

Yes, it's all about people's opinions and mine is that Thor made a complaint, the complaint was upheld (however harsh the punishment) and that another sprinter (one of their peers and no friend of authority) agreed that there was an infringement by Cav, again with the caveat that the punishment was unduly harsh. That's only my opinion but it doesn't rely on mind-reading or conspiracy theory rubbish about Thor planning to get Cav disqualified.

 

[justAl]

If you look at where TH was 100m further back you'll see him dead centre then move right alongside the barrier. Stupid move unless he was playing the "GET CAV DISQUALIFIED" game. Yes, Cav didn't move off line but he knew TH was on his right side which is why he didn't look that way. They both played a game and Cav lost. Tough t*ts

 

[Flying_Monkey]

<sigh>
It's got nothing to do with what I think about Cav. It's got everything to do with the kneejerk assumptions, including yours, being made about Thor.

<sigh right back at you>

I am not making any more assumptions than you. I watched the footage and saw the from various angles and made my own mind up after that. If you had read what I wrote earlier, you'd already know that. In any case, I have certainly never made it a secret that I follow the Norwegians, having grown up in Norway. So I have nothing against Thor that would result in a jerking of any joint, in fact I have always liked him a lot as a rider. Despite that, I did not like his behaviour on this occasion which, as I said, smacks of desperate gamesmanship.

You, on the other hand, have made it pretty clear that you like Cavendish almost as much as you like Lance... which is to say, about as much as a recurring saddle sore.

I'll let others decide who is displaying any petty prejudices here.

 

[rich p]

Well, on Chuffy's behalf, I have to say it's you Flying Monkey and I am a Cav fan.
Do you actually believe the fact that Hushovd doesn't like Cav swayed the commissaires'opinions?

 

[Chuffy]

Well, on Chuffy's behalf, I have to say it's you Flying Monkey and I am a Cav fan.
Do you actually believe the fact that Hushovd doesn't like Cav swayed the commissaires'opinions?

Thanks Rich, saved me from saying it.
What I feel about Cav (he's not even in the same ballpark as Team LA and I've previously said that I'd like him to get to Paris in green, so let's just drop that one shall we?) has absolutely nothing to do with this. Scraps between sprinters aren't that interesting to me and I've never been that excited by the green jersey, ever. The only aspect of this which I'm interested in is the way that people seem to have suddenly acquired the ability to read minds.

 

[yello]

Personally, I don't there's any way that Hushovd tried to get Cavendish disqualified. I think that's just a silly thing to suggest. i reckon he went right towards the barriers to attack Cavendish who was still on Renshaw's wheel. Whether Cavendish deliberately blocked Hushvold, I don't know and only Cavendish does. By that I mean, consciously thought 'I need to block'. Personally, I don't think he did and that it was a silly move, maybe in panic, to get a clear line. But I do think he knew Hushovd was there though... and that, for me, is the crux of it.

Hushovd was clearly displeased as they crossed the line and I think he had every right to complain; at the time and officially. I have not seen any interview with him subsequently where he gloats, so I can't comment on that. I've only seen the one interview and the topic wasn't even mentioned.

The decision was down to the race commissioners. To my mind, it's clear Cavendish blocked Hushovd so punishment was always likely. But, as I said at the time, I've seen worse. That doesn't mean Cavendish wasn't in the wrong though. Some people get done for speeding, some don't; it's the way it goes.

I'm confident that the race commissioners decided only on the basis of the incident and not with a desire to bring Cavendish down a peg or two. Even if they did, it again doesn't mean that they didn't have justification; Cavendish did block Hushovd.

I'm just peeved that there's no competition for the green jersey now. It was shaping up to be a final day decider! Maybe the race commissioners should have considered that too!

 

[Haitch]

What's the opinon in France, yello? Here in Holland the TV commentators said immediately it happened (i.e. before the race even finished) that Cavendish would get punished for shutting the door on Hushovd.

 

[Chuffy]

What's the opinon in France, yello? Here in Holland the TV commentators said immediately it happened (i.e. before the race even finished) that Cavendish would get punished for shutting the door on Hushovd.

Well the French hate Cav, so there is dancing in the streets and a public holiday has been declared.

Thanks Yello, although clearly your petty prejudice against Our Cav is coming out very strongly.

 

[Chuffy]

Maybe the race commissioners should have considered that too!

That point was put to Robbie McEwan and he said that the answer was a flat-out 'no', they have to take each case on it's merits.