Team BKool CycleChat

[BILL S]

Just as I thought. I lost more than 3 minutes to Pro-minator just on those two downhill sections in "Cinctorres-Morella", and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. If I pedal faster, I go slower. I'm totally in the hands of gravity.

I get a feeling that this stage is all about damage control.

I think all of us with the pro models are in the same boat there LB. You, me & Rick seem to go about the same speed on the down hills and have the same slingshot hitting an up. When looking at the power figures, you, me & Ryan were very similar on GallartaArgalario and I think you and me are about the same weight so the advantage we got on the downhill being about equal was actually equivalent to the advantage Ryan had on the uphill with his lighter weight, considering our similar finish times. In reality I'd expect that light weight would be a much bigger advantage overall but perhaps not so in bkool.

 

[BILL S]

Just as I thought. I lost more than 3 minutes to Pro-minator just on those two downhill sections in "Cinctorres-Morella", and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. If I pedal faster, I go slower. I'm totally in the hands of gravity.

I get a feeling that this stage is all about damage control.

Looking at the power curves on Cinctorres-Morella tells quite an interesting story and backs up what you've just said. Your power curve is very erratic (as will mine be) and you are unable to hold any decent power downhill. The others can manage 220 plus downhill but for you its more like half that. Hopefully we can get the ghosts to join in the ride tomorrow. It's looking like these differences are also course/stage related as we seemed to have the advantage on the last chain gang race.

 

[LBHIFI]

I think all of us with the pro models are in the same boat there LB. You, me & Rick seem to go about the same speed on the down hills and have the same slingshot hitting an up. When looking at the power figures, you, me & Ryan were very similar on GallartaArgalario and I think you and me are about the same weight so the advantage we got on the downhill being about equal was actually equivalent to the advantage Ryan had on the uphill with his lighter weight, considering our similar finish times. In reality I'd expect that light weight would be a much bigger advantage overall but perhaps not so in bkool.

Yeah, I'm sure Ryan would waste us in any real life climbs with that watt/kg rate.

 

[LBHIFI]

Looking at the power curves on Cinctorres-Morella tells quite an interesting story and backs up what you've just said. Your power curve is very erratic (as will mine be) and you are unable to hold any decent power downhill. The others can manage 220 plus downhill but for you its more like half that.

I think I could hold more power downhill, but it doesn't seem to make much difference how hard I pedal when the numbers are blue, and when I got blue number close to the 70 kph limit, I'm not risking speeding up beyond 70 kph. I tried it after about 10 km, and my numbers dropped to 35 kph and 320 watt (my guess is that also the power dropped to half).

 

[LBHIFI]

I think all of us with the pro models are in the same boat there LB.

So do you also floor to half speed when you speed up beyond 70 kph?

 

[gbrown]

it doesn't seem to make much difference how hard I pedal when the numbers are blue, and when I got blue number close to the 70 kph limit,

I think that's fair enough, and a decent simulation of real life.

On any steep descent I would expect gravity to push you faster than you could pedal, and then pedalling would not provide any boost in speed or develop any real power (as no resistance against the free-wheel). You just can't turn the pedals fast enough to catch up the free-wheeling sprocket and apply any extra speed.

At 70 Km/h in a pretty standard 50 big ring and 11 rear sprocket you have to pedal at a cadence of 122 to do 70 Kph.

Even with a 54/11 you need a cadence of 113, cadence of 120 gets you 74 Kph.

In reality, you would be hard pushed to pedal yourself that much past 70 kph, and at that point you would be much better (tucking in and) free-wheeling, with the added benefit that you save energy for the uphill bits!

Out of interest, what do you reckon is the highest cadence you can maintain over a reasonably long period?

Looking through my data, the maximum I hit last winter was 122, but I doubt I maintained that for any length of time ...

Geoff

P.S. No idea why your speed should suddenly half, though. That sounds like a bug!

 

[LBHIFI]

Out of interest, what do you reckon is the highest cadence you can maintain over a reasonably long period?

I think I can reach 150 rpm on the turbo, but I wouldn't try in the real world. In real life races I have reached 70 kph with a compact crank, but this is about the limit as it tends to affect stability. And stability is a really bad thing to sacrifice when riding in a peloton.
On the turbo I have no problem with maintaining 120 rpm, at least for a few minutes.
But the thing is, you would only have to do it for at few seconds, and then let gravity take over.

 

[Goldwolfie]

Please excuse my ignorance around some of the terminology I have read about over the last month or so on here. Hopefully someone could help me understand what the following means:

Slingshot - should I be wearing my helmet in case I get struck by a ball bearing or some other projectile

Wormholes - what are they all about

I understand drafting, but have never had the chance to try that one out, as I don't think I've ever caught anyone but I am still enjoying the ride so far.

 

[gbrown]

Please excuse my ignorance around some of the terminology I have read about over the last month or so on here. Hopefully someone could help me understand what the following means:

Slingshot - should I be wearing my helmet in case I get struck by a ball bearing or some other projectile

The Bkool simulation algorithm tries to factor in momentum so that when you start on an uphill section it allows you to carry entry speed and only gradually reduces speeds to what you would expect on such an incline (as in the real world). However, this simulation can be different for different trainers, weights, speeds, etc. and for some riders it gives what seems like an unfair advantage at the start of a slope and they can "slingshot" past other riders.

This happens for me using my Wahoo KICKR, where there seems to be no momentum to speak of, so Bkool Pro riders suddenly fly past and get such a head start up the slope that they can't be caught again.

Wormholes - what are they all about

I understand drafting, but have never had the chance to try that one out, as I don't think I've ever caught anyone but I am still enjoying the ride so far.

Due to various bugs over the last few months/years, in many races some contestants appear to suddenly shoot forward hundreds of yards or hit crazy speeds for periods of time, so the simulator shows them disappear and the re-appear much further ahead. This effect has been referred to as a wormhole, or a bkool super power!

Geoff

 

[Goldwolfie]

The Bkool simulation algorithm tries to factor in momentum so that when you start on an uphill section it allows you to carry entry speed and only gradually reduces speeds to what you would expect on such an incline (as in the real world). However, this simulation can be different for different trainers, weights, speeds, etc. and for some riders it gives what seems like an unfair advantage at the start of a slope and they can "slingshot" past other riders.

This happens for me using my Wahoo KICKR, where there seems to be no momentum to speak of, so Bkool Pro riders suddenly fly past and get such a head start up the slope that they can't be caught again.



Due to various bugs over the last few months/years, in many races some contestants appear to suddenly shoot forward hundreds of yards or hit crazy speeds for periods of time, so the simulator shows them disappear and the re-appear much further ahead. This effect has been referred to as a wormhole, or a bkool super power!

Geoff

Thanks Geoff - it makes sense now. I'll be looking out for those 'wormholes' in the future.

Regarding the pros and cons of different trainers, I suppose it would need someone to perform the same ride on all the common trainers to get a comparison of performance - and that ain't going to happen, I doubt.

 

[Norseman]

So is the live chaingang ride still going ahead on Thursday at 7pm - as in 7pm on Xmas Eve?! Not sure I'll be in any state to do a Bkool ride by that point myself....

I've already ridden it as we celebrate Christmas at Christmas eve. Christmas day, we're off to 14 days vacation at Lanzarote, so there will be little bkooling until Saturday January 9th.

 

[theboxers]

Please excuse my ignorance around some of the terminology I have read about over the last month or so on here. Hopefully someone could help me understand what the following means:

Slingshot - should I be wearing my helmet in case I get struck by a ball bearing or some other projectile

Wormholes - what are they all about

I understand drafting, but have never had the chance to try that one out, as I don't think I've ever caught anyone but I am still enjoying the ride so far.

There are some very odd results when you look at what I can sometimes do. Now I can't climb for crap. However if you look at one or two of the T100 sessions (malham cove for example), or the moose league, I have done, I am like SuperBill S. I can push very close, for me, to the top times. What should be an hour and 30 minute main session done in 57 minutes. About 6 or 7 minutes slower than the session leader.
I have no idea how I do it because the power, cadence, speed and HR all look consistant with rides done before at lower speeds. Once I woork out how I am doing it until then

 

[Randyberlin]

I've already ridden it as we celebrate Christmas at Christmas eve. Christmas day, we're off to 14 days vacation at Lanzarote, so there will be little bkooling until Saturday January 9th.

Don't forget Monte's 10,000 calories a day rule.

 

[bobinski]

Don't forget Monte's 10,000 calories a day rule.

does it involve waffles?!?

 

[BILL S]

So do you also floor to half speed when you speed up beyond 70 kph?

No I've never had that happen. yet! Perhaps never tried a steep enough downhill since the last new update. Soon find out though. For me right now its mainly just pointless pedalling hard downhill because I don't go any faster.