Team BKool CycleChat

[one_legged_rider]

I'm riding in the real world this week and the Bkool.has been a two edged sword.I sure have way more climbing ability and am in better shape but twice now I've ridden to point of the Geoff dilemma. That's where on a steep climb you have slowed down to the point of falling over but can't get enough momentum to get unclipped. It is never a problem in the Bkool world.

It was my first 'real world' ride today.

I bought the bkool trainer just before xmas in a desperate attempt to try and gain some sort of fitness (having not ridden for years). Today was my first real world ride after roughly a month of riding on the trainer.

Realistic or not, it doesn't really matter, Bkool has noticeably improved my fitness.
Last time I commuted I had to walk up two of the climbs. This time I got up them both.

 

[BILL S]

Well, I am not volunteering

You really are putting in the miles Bill. Just seen your other 2 rides. Respect.

Not long to go before my 24 hour race on 23rd so trying to get in some training.

 

[BILL S]

AAAC, it looks like you've got our own -Minator. I expected your time in Chain Gang #1 stage to stay a record time for a long time, but Skovsgaard just cut more than a minute of that time, outputting a massive 392 watt avg .
I hope Skovsgaard joins us this thursday...could be an interesting battle between you and Skovsgaard.

If its anything goes! I think I might be in with a chance.
Just did an unofficial "spin around the block with Liam" at 32.51 mins making a whopping 210 watts (on/off power). And that was just after climbing Mortirolo Alpes Dolomitas. (Not in the results as I stopped just before the line)
I have therefore concluded that average power means little. Its how you use it with that counts with bkool.
If only I'd known this for the bkool summer cup .

 

[Whorty]

Interesting happening today (well I thought it was, when I explained to my wife she sort of glazed over so I am now sharing it with like-minded wierdos) redid stage one of the chaingang this morning (obviously in an attempt to beat Whorty).

Only thing I changed was spinning a bit faster rather than pushing a bit harder on the hilly bits and then coming over the top pedalling like the clappers for the first 10 seconds or so before backing off.

Doing that took a minute and a bit out of my time (i definitely haven't got fitter since Thursday). I guess this is probably the bit other than just getting fitter where a smart turbo is really useful to allow you to try different things to see what works.

You got me by 22 seconds

 

[BILL S]

STEEP SLOPE ISSUE

One for you Bill, you may be able to do an experiment for me.
I am also riding in the BKool Odense 'Januar 2016' league and with all my effort in the Goats and Chaingang I was getting behind so today I had a go at the Mortirolo and guess who was there as a ghost, no other than a Pro BillS.
I had no intention of killing my self today having worked hard yesterday so I thought you may act as a beacon for me in one way or the other.
Off we went and there was some familiar exchanging of positions as the gradients went up and down until the gradients got stupid, 45%, 30 something % and some other 25's and over.
At the first one you were off so I thought never mind I'll gain some ground on the less serious slopes but because there were so many steep/steep bits you were half way in the stage when I was only a quarter way.
Luckily I had the league stage results board open on the screen and I could see there were plenty of folk in the 30 something minute time and the slowest was 59 minutes.
At quarter way through the stage I was on 15 minutes so I guessed it was going to take me an hour to finish so I had nothing to gain by going on as far as league placing was concerned other than the 5%.
When I was going up a 45% I was down to 4kph and I checked this with Bike Calculator and it was about right.
In fact while I was riding I kept the calculator open and checked various gradients and they all pretty much checked out OK with my speed.
Also, because I have been 'playing' with my trainer I have left the covers of for now and at 45% the magnets were fully in the circumferance of the flywheel so in summary I believe my BKool Classic can simulate 45% slopes for me as registered on BKool at 77kg but it was probably at its limit. I have seen pictures of a broken Pro Trainer and the inards are literaly the same with about the only differnce being the fan and fan housing so I guess Pros can do 45% ass well.
Sprinting from this to do the on/off style was a no go as when I went faster the restistance went up propotionaly with the speed of the flywheel as stated before re eddy current braking.
I therefore stopped, saved what I did and went for a steady climb up Ventoux instead at pretty much 350 watts all the way.
Below are the speed and power graphs for the first 5.3 km which I did for you, me, the Odense League Stage leader (on a pro) and the fastest Classic contender other than Valverde who has locked his data.
Could you possibly go to my ride and challenge me (if you can becuase I did not finish) and do the first 5.3 km again but this time when you see the first 45% coming try going into it real slow, 4 kph if you can, and on the next one do your own thing and see what differnce it makes.
Also do this with some of the other 20% plus climbs if you can.
What I am hoping to see is that if you go into the steep slope dead slow you will also end up at 4 kph but if you don't it is possible that they have written a slope limit into the latest trainer firmware, that I cannot download as stated before, in order to try and level the playing field for us BKoolers when we go up against the 'average other trainer' which may be more slope limited. For this they may have chosen the average slope limit or just generalised it in the market range but obviously not 7%.
If this is so I am stuck in a world on my own where I will not be able to compete on extreme courses but in the real world road racing very rarely goes up anything steeper than 20% and certainly would not go a 45% as you would probably have to walk it and if it was wet that may prove impossible in raceing shoes and perhaps even socks.

I tried this as suggested AAAC and I remembered the ride well because of its unique characteristics. Coasting up 40% slopes at 40mph can be quite fun. If you're unable to do this coasting up hill at speed then you'll have no look in against the guys on the pro units.
So when I hit these 25% slopes at full speed the fast coasting lasted for ages. It only slowed very gradually and not at all like the usual "slingshot" effect. However, when I approached the 25% slope slowly (4 kph) and then put the power on, 450 watts would only give me approx. 9mph which is the same resistance as a 10% slope in my experience.
Is this the gist of what you wanted to find out?

 

[AAAC 76C]

Realistic or not, it doesn't really matter, Bkool has noticeably improved my fitness.
Last time I commuted I had to walk up two of the climbs. This time I got up them both.

That's what it is all about!

I started to give my heart regular workouts after having 3 heart stents fitted and I feel miles better now and hopefuly my heart will be able to survive better in the future when my genetic legacy catches up with me next time!

 

[bobinski]

Bill, you just took my Strava kom by 1sec!! Enough already as my kids would say!

 

[Randyberlin]

Not long to go before my 24 hour race on 23rd so trying to get in some training.

Are you doing the Strathpuffer again?

 

[AAAC 76C]

So when I hit these 25% slopes at full speed the fast coasting lasted for ages. It only slowed very gradually and not at all like the usual "slingshot" effect. However, when I approached the 25% slope slowly (4 kph) and then put the power on, 450 watts would only give me approx. 9mph which is the same resistance as a 10% slope in my experience.
Is this the gist of what you wanted to find out?

What that proves exactly is not clear other than the new firmware appears to have a slope limit on it and a transitional compensator that is beyond what one might gain from inertia.

From bike clalculator, 77kg with a 9kg bike (which is what Bkool once told me they use) at 450 watts works out closer to a 12% gradient so I do get the feeling they have put some kind of slope limit in perhaps as I have mentioned to level the playing field with other turbos.

The above conditions on a 45% work out to 2.5mph or 4kph which is where I was on the slopes so no wonder I got left behind.

I have never created my own 2D Session but it would be interesting to see someone riding a pro on a slope that goes up in 2 degree steps at a steady wattage and see where the speed levels out and whatever else the speed graph discloses.

Anyway did the Goats ride today. I studied the profile and Alan's stats and after my steady Ventoux ride yesterday I though I could take this by blasting the early flat bits.
It kind of worked other than the following.
By halfway I was blowing hard but still laying down watts.
At 16.6 km I was really hurting and my HRM was obviously lying and pi**ing me of so that went across the room hence my HR disappearing
At about 19.5 km there was a descent that caught me out, my power dropped of as it would, but my legs now felt like jelly and I struggled to keep my power up there after.
I slowly had to trade cadence for watts whilst I watched my average speed drop but the 'time remaining' figure stayed in my favour so I just hung on to the end and welcomed that final coast to the line.

 

[BILL S]

Are you doing the Strathpuffer again?

Sure am.
And I thought I suffered during a 1:45 bkool ride

 

[AAAC 76C]

If its anything goes! I think I might be in with a chance.
Just did an unofficial "spin around the block with Liam" at 32.51 mins making a whopping 210 watts (on/off power). And that was just after climbing Mortirolo Alpes Dolomitas. (Not in the results as I stopped just before the line)
I have therefore concluded that average power means little. Its how you use it with that counts with bkool.
If only I'd known this for the bkool summer cup .

Bill, do you think we should let Dave Brailsford know, this is way beyond marginal gains and Chris Froome must be one of, if no the best power on spinners in the Peleton. That would make interesting watching in the TdF individual mountain TT and the commentators would be well confused!

 

[AAAC 76C]

AAAC, it looks like you've got our own -Minator. I expected your time in Chain Gang #1 stage to stay a record time for a long time, but Skovsgaard just cut more than a minute of that time, outputting a massive 392 watt avg .
I hope Skovsgaard joins us this thursday...could be an interesting battle between you and Skovsgaard.

New bar tape it is then.
Might have to go out and get some titanium bolts for the bike to get the weight down as well.

However my wife has changed her shifts and finishes at 8 this Thursday so I will not be running live until Saturday (Taxi duties)

PS: He's a big lad hence the big watts

 

[LBHIFI]

I tried this as suggested AAAC and I remembered the ride well because of its unique characteristics. Coasting up 40% slopes at 40mph can be quite fun. If you're unable to do this coasting up hill at speed then you'll have no look in against the guys on the pro units.
So when I hit these 25% slopes at full speed the fast coasting lasted for ages. It only slowed very gradually and not at all like the usual "slingshot" effect. However, when I approached the 25% slope slowly (4 kph) and then put the power on, 450 watts would only give me approx. 9mph which is the same resistance as a 10% slope in my experience.
Is this the gist of what you wanted to find out?

That is what I get a lot in the UK 100 rides, and what I have been referring to as my "super power".
I don't know if rider weight is a part of that glitch in the algorithm, but at my 77 kg the limit seems to be right about 11%.
Maybe we should avoid league stages with sections beyond 11% to at least keep out the Marvel Super Heroes from the equation.

 

[rob01792]

If its anything goes! I think I might be in with a chance.
Just did an unofficial "spin around the block with Liam" at 32.51 mins making a whopping 210 watts (on/off power). And that was just after climbing Mortirolo Alpes Dolomitas. (Not in the results as I stopped just before the line)
I have therefore concluded that average power means little. Its how you use it with that counts with bkool.
If only I'd known this for the bkool summer cup .

going forward whats the answer as there a few of us who ride that style. and I don't want to feel like I'm taken postion away from the stronger riders

 

[BILL S]

Bill, do you think we should let Dave Brailsford know, this is way beyond marginal gains and Chris Froome must be one of, if no the best power on spinners in the Peleton. That would make interesting watching in the TdF individual mountain TT and the commentators would be well confused!

I don't know who Dave Brailsford is but I'm guessing he's a bkool bigwig.
I think we should build a case and hit bkool with it and hopefully get them to re-write their software. They have obviously overcomplicated it and caused unintended consequences. Perhaps they know about this or perhaps they don't but I don't see them being overly amused about being told they've got it wrong and they have a massive glitch in their system.
This now makes it difficult for the leagues. We might need to have a rule of no on/off power riding. I've yet to try it on a mountain goat ride but tonight's chaingang ride took 3 minutes off my actual time using much less average power.
If bkool won't do something about it then I suggest we go and blitz any bkool leagues and take the top places.