Team BKool CycleChat

[bobinski]

I think if people want to make agreements to draft together that's fine but I wouldn't want to see an enforced speed or watts at the start of a race.

My view is a race is a race - first to the finishing line, however you want to do it! The thing is, people have different strengths and weaknesses. I tend to sprint off at the start just to ensure I have a chance of staying with the others at the front (I always used to get dropped at the start, but have improved!)

Enforcing an artificially slow start is unfair to riders who are capable of going really hard at the start and holding on - if that's someone's strength it seems unfair to restrict it.

Nothing to stop anyone makings agreements though, or arranging specific drafting rides outside of the live stage for example - plus we'll hopefully have the TTTs again at some point - but I wouldn't want to see the races restricted personally

I can see your point bridgy. Turbo racing is an artificial activity and so perhaps not appropriate to bring the wrong real world experience of racing into the bkool world. No one races from the off in the TdF etc but then perhaps our races are more akin to a criterium?
Like you I had to get stronger to catch and to run with the fast guys. I can recall vividly often wearing myself out doing so and then not being able to get in the draft.
That said I do think personally I am faster over a given course, especially the longer ones if I don't have to sprint at 600w at the start!

 

[BILL S]

Hi Bill Would you have another leg for the Oct chaingang league scheduled?

Hi Andy. I'm pretty sure there's one a week until the end of October so next leg of the league should start up tomorrow. I think.

 

[BILL S]

I still can't create a new league for the Handicap Chase, I just get "This page is temporarily unavailable" when I click create. Since the page only has two fields, the name and description, I can't see that I'm doing anything wrong, but @BILL S seemed to be OK setting up the Goat's League, so I wonder why I'm unable to do the same!

Geoff

Geoff, I had the same problem setting up the latest League and got the same "This page is temporarily unavailable" as you did. Then, thinking all was lost, I went to the unscheduled leagues menu and found that the league had actually been set up and all I had to do was to add the stages to it and publish it. Afterwards, I couldn't see any of the stages within the league but so far it's working as normal even if no one can see what's coming up next.

 

[theboxers]

The second Goat ride is up and running. Only 12.3 km this one .... half the pain of the first Goat ride. Hopefully will be having a go in the week, work allowing I'm also a chaingang ride down, but the Goats must come first

 

[<Tommy>]

I can see your point bridgy. Turbo racing is an artificial activity and so perhaps not appropriate to bring the wrong real world experience of racing into the bkool world. No one races from the off in the TdF etc but then perhaps our races are more akin to a criterium?
Like you I had to get stronger to catch and to run with the fast guys. I can recall vividly often wearing myself out doing so and then not being able to get in the draft.
That said I do think personally I am faster over a given course, especially the longer ones if I don't have to sprint at 600w at the start!

I think it probably has to happen organically Bob.

If for example someone belts off the start line but others start slower but as a group, slowly reeling him in and overhauling him. Then perhaps tactics will be adjusted by the early attacker in future races. I'm like you in that a sprint start wrecks me for the rest of the race. But I suppose it's up to us to come up with an alternate winning formula to challenge the early sprinters.

 

[Whorty]

I think it probably has to happen organically Bob.

If for example someone belts off the start line but others start slower but as a group, slowly reeling him in and overhauling him. Then perhaps tactics will be adjusted by the early attacker in future races. I'm like you in that a sprint start wrecks me for the rest of the race. But I suppose it's up to us to come up with an alternate winning formula to challenge the early sprinters.

I tried to sprint from the off to keep up with others but I'm shot after the first 1km. Then I tried a slower start, and I'm shot by 5km. Then an ever slower start, and i can ride for 10km. Hmmm, I think I've spotted my problem - not fit enough

I think I need to set up some HIIT sessions to get my body used to sprint and recovery

 

[CXRAndy]

If I miss the chance to catch a group of riders within a minute, I have blown a load of energy which I know I will have to pay a little later on.

 

[<Tommy>]

I've drawn the same conclusion Worty.

I've even read up and asked advice on doing interval sessions etc.

But it's definately much easier to convince yourself everyone faster than you has employed a dodgy doctor. Most probably to swap their blood with that of an Olympic champion, and forget you ever heard the dreadful phrase, HIIT!

 

[Whorty]

I've drawn the same conclusion Worty.

I've even read up and asked advice on doing interval sessions etc.

But it's definately much easier to convince yourself everyone faster than you has employed a dodgy doctor. Most probably to swap their blood with that of an Olympic champion, and forget you ever heard the dreadful phrase, HIIT!

I think this is why I find the Goat rides 'easier', kind of, compared to Chaingang rides. In the Goat sessions I can stay at a steady cadence and whilst heavy on the legs, it's not that hard on the lungs. I can keep up the tempo for a couple of hours. But, with the Chaingang rides, it's the sprints and cardio sections that does for me - I can't keep the pace as the lungs just give up. I think I need to plan some HIIT and get my lungs in better shape!

 

[bobinski]

I've drawn the same conclusion Worty.

I've even read up and asked advice on doing interval sessions etc.

But it's definately much easier to convince yourself everyone faster than you has employed a dodgy doctor. Most probably to swap their blood with that of an Olympic champion, and forget you ever heard the dreadful phrase, HIIT!

I think it is right that intervals are the way to get to riding beyond tempo and hitting sustained threshold. It's just that starting a race at sprint pace seems the wrong way to get there and splits us all up all too quickly. But I am absolutely not looking to impose anything on anyone. On Zwift they have race categories made up of more or less evenly matched riders. I am sure that works for lots of people. Then they have more sociable rides, watts limits and so on. Us lot, we mix abilities and by and large it works, as the banter before and after demonstrates.

 

[theboxers]

@Whorty @TurboTommy

I have come to the same conclusion. I've even tried to set up a HIIT session following Bkools guidance. All I get is the dreaded 'not available' page .

The next best thing, I've found, is a solo Velo session. Mixing equal numbers of laps @low power with High power. For example 3 100w laps followed by 3 250w laps, repeat 4 or 5 times. Then take 5 laps as recovery and repeat 2-4 times. The number of low laps may need to be reduced as they take longer to do, so you recover more than HIIT wants you to. You may want to recover more, but the point of HIIT sessions is to stress you body to get used to performing @ the higher level.

The high power level is deppendant on your FTP. It should be above your FTP but not by an excessive amount. At 210w my current FTP means I can do sections of 4 or 5 laps @ 250w, relatively well. So I may be able to do 275w instead. It is down to you to experiment with this value.

I've started experimenting again with the velo and here is an example session I did before the rerun Saturday.

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/2969748

 

[bobinski]

@Whorty @TurboTommy

I have come to the same conclusion. I've even tried to set up a HIIT session following Bkools guidance. All I get is the dreaded 'not available' page .

The next best thing, I've found, is a solo Velo session. Mixing equal numbers of laps @low power with High power. For example 3 100w laps followed by 3 250w laps, repeat 4 or 5 times. Then take 5 laps as recovery and repeat 2-4 times. The number of low laps may need to be reduced as they take longer to do, so you recover more than HIIT wants you to. You may want to recover more, but the point of HIIT sessions is to stress you body to get used to performing @ the higher level.

The high power level is deppendant on your FTP. It should be above your FTP but not by an excessive amount. At 210w my current FTP means I can do sections of 4 or 5 laps @ 250w, relatively well. So I may be able to do 275w instead. It is down to you to experiment with this value.

I've started experimenting again with the velo and here is an example session I did before the rerun Saturday.

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/2969748

You have clearly thought this through boxers. I find it bizarre that Bkool have not provided training sessions like this when every other hardware/software provider has done so. Trainer road, sufferfest, Zwift , kinomap etc. Doing a trial of any of them say for a month, even paying for a short period may be a sensible way forward. And they are erg based. There is no hiding!

 

[theboxers]

You have clearly thought this through boxers. I find it bizarre that Bkool have not provided training sessions like this when every other hardware/software provider has done so. Trainer road, sufferfest, Zwift , kinomap etc. Doing a trial of any of them say for a month, even paying for a short period may be a sensible way forward. And they are erg based. There is no hiding!

I think I my have created a HIIT session on a timed session not distance. I will give it a go tomorrow and see what happens .

2 min @100-120 2 min @ 250 repeat 5 times rest 4min repeat 2min L, 2min H x 4

 

[Breedon]

I think this is why I find the Goat rides 'easier', kind of, compared to Chaingang rides. In the Goat sessions I can stay at a steady cadence and whilst heavy on the legs, it's not that hard on the lungs. I can keep up the tempo for a couple of hours. But, with the Chaingang rides, it's the sprints and cardio sections that does for me - I can't keep the pace as the lungs just give up. I think I need to plan some HIIT and get my lungs in better shape!

Same here

 

[Breedon]

I'll be using 20 mile sections of flat instead of the velodrome so I won't be getting any drafting benefit, so you'll be able to hold the watts better which I'll be starting in a few days need to improve endurance at a faster pace.