The bakers' thread

[glasgowcyclist]

or those with a high wholemeal proportion may need a little less water-to-flour ratio

I’ve always worked on the opposite principle; wholemeal flour needs a higher hydration ratio than simple white.

@stoatsngroats Everyone’s kitchen and oven are different, you’ll need to get used to what works best for you in *your* environment.

I generally bake my big sandwich loaf (550g flour) at 180C for 35 minutes and I know it’ll be spot on. I’ve never relied on the tapping-the-bottom method as it seems too vague to me. If I’m at all worried about a loaf, I’ll use a food thermometer to check the middle. So long as it is at 91C I know it’s properly baked inside, the only reason to bake any longer is to affect the crust/finish.

For the clearest, down to earth explanations of everything related to baking, I heartily recommend subscribing to Jack Sturgess’s YouTube channel. He knows his stuff, doesn’t try to make it sound like a black art and gives you all his knowledge, no holding stuff back like some do.

Here’s his simple yeasted loaf from start to finish. Well worth doing, even if you have made lots of bread before:

View: https://youtu.be/UlaXqK7C67g
. I often go back to it.

 

[Reynard]

The answer is in marketing - you baked an artisan unleaven flatbread.

I dunno... Even my friend's chooks refused to eat it, it was that bad...

 

[Reynard]

I also find that the more wholegrain is in your dough, the more water it needs. Typically, a white bread works well at 60% hydration, that is 60% by weight the weight of your flour. A wholemeal bread tends to want around 65%, sometimes a little more.

If you do find that your dough is too wet, no need to panic. It's easily remedied by throwing in a handful of rolled (porridge) oats, as oats are brilliant at sucking up unwanted moisture. Plus it's nice in bread anyway, so I'll throw some in, just because.

I also like using chapatti (atta) flour - it's 80% extraction, so effectively the same as the half-and-half bread you can get. Makes a lovely loaf, and if you shop around, a 10kg sack can be had for a fiver.

My oven (electric fan) has vents in the door, so I have to bake bread in a clay pot, else the crust sets too quickly and then I get exploded and wonky loaves. Benefit of that is that the moisture in the loaf generates enough steam to give good oven spring. A 600g loaf takes about 45 minutes; 25 mins at 230C (the highest it will go) with the lid on, then the remaining 20 mins at 200C with the lid off.

 

[figbat]

Simple white crusty loaf, just out of the oven.

Started at around 11pm last night. 500g strong white flour, 7g dried yeast, ‘some’ salt (I tend to do this by hand), and enough water to make an easy-to-handle dough (turned out to be about 250 ml I’d guess).

10 minutes of kneading with a dough hook in the stand mixer, into a lightly-oiled bowl, covered with a disposable shower cap and left in the garage overnight.

Massive overnight prove was knocked back and folded a few times, roughly shaped and dropped into a lightly-oiled loaf tin and 2nd-proved in a warm place for around an hour. Again, huge rise so a deep slash lengthways across the top and into the oven at 200°C with a boiling water bath for 40 minutes, out of the tin for the final 10.

Sounds hollow, is firm all over and as it cools it is making a light “crackling” sound, which is always a good sign of a decent crust.

This will be lunch today.

 

[stoatsngroats]

Simple white crusty loaf, just out of the oven.

Started at around 11pm last night. 500g strong white flour, 7g dried yeast, ‘some’ salt (I tend to do this by hand), and enough water to make an easy-to-handle dough (turned out to be about 250 ml I’d guess).

10 minutes of kneading with a dough hook in the stand mixer, into a lightly-oiled bowl, covered with a disposable shower cap and left in the garage overnight.

Massive overnight prove was knocked back and folded a few times, roughly shaped and dropped into a lightly-oiled loaf tin and 2nd-proved in a warm place for around an hour. Again, huge rise so a deep slash lengthways across the top and into the oven at 200°C with a boiling water bath for 40 minutes, out of the tin for the final 10.

Sounds hollow, is firm all over and as it cools it is making a light “crackling” sound, which is always a good sign of a decent crust.

This will be lunch today.
View attachment 572351

Looks great! I’ve done another ‘mix’ this week, which was delicious, and I’m looking forward to another later today before our flour and yeast delivery arrives late tomorrow.

 

[figbat]

Also, to add, I always cool loaves on a raised rack as they give off a fair amount of water as they cool which condenses on any nearby surfaces - on a low cooling rack this leads to a wet surface underneath the loaf which could cause a soggy bottom.

 

[stoatsngroats]

@figbat ahh that’s interesting, I have that exact rack, which I’ll use in future, thanks for all your help and guidance and that to @Reynard too.
It’s certainly becoming an interesting time, and I have even noticed that our oven maybe cooking hotter than set, which may help a little too. Plenty of interest from Mrs SnG too, and we’ve had some wonderful bread this week.
Here’s hoping it’ll only get better, similar to yours and Reynards 😀

 

[figbat]

Pastry today. I made a simple savoury mince mix (onion, carrot, minced beef, stock cubes, stout [see beer thread], seasoning), stirred in some parboiled diced Maris Pipers then made a hot water crust pastry, filled, egg-washed and in the oven for around 45-50 minutes.

Nom!

 

[stoatsngroats]

Nom nom

 

[Reynard]

Aaaargh, now I'm wanting pasties!

I did pick up a kilo of beef mince yesterday on yellow sticker, so...

 

[figbat]

Aaaargh, now I'm wanting pasties!

I did pick up a kilo of beef mince yesterday on yellow sticker, so...

I’ve done them before with a shortcrust pastry but the hot water crust really works well.

 

[Reynard]

I’ve done them before with a shortcrust pastry but the hot water crust really works well.

As does rough puff pastry. Which is what I'll use, as I've got some sitting in the fridge that needs using up.

 

[Colin Grigson]

A no knead loaf made with my son, started yesterday. The dough was very wet , 375ml water : 500g flour so nightmarish to shape and transfer to the cooking cloche - but ... the bread is tasty and great consistency - very moist indeed. I’ll try again next week now I know what I’m up against .

 

[stoatsngroats]

Still learning, but this is my first white loaf without using a ‘Mix’, just Doves flour,yeast, water, and a little salt.
I did a Doves wholemeal which could have had more proving, but was tasty nonetheless.
Since we started trying this, I’ve worked out that my oven runs hotter than the temperature dial, so we adjust a little the time and indicated temperature, which seems to have reduced the top burning.
It’s still early days, but we’re enjoying the task 😀

 

[figbat]

View attachment 573696
Still learning, but this is my first white loaf without using a ‘Mix’, just Doves flour,yeast, water, and a little salt.
I did a Doves wholemeal which could have had more proving, but was tasty nonetheless.
Since we started trying this, I’ve worked out that my oven runs hotter than the temperature dial, so we adjust a little the time and indicated temperature, which seems to have reduced the top burning.
It’s still early days, but we’re enjoying the task 😀

Your tiling is exactly how I want mine done! The bread looks good too.

I am in the middle of a Napoletana pizza-making course; made the dough last night and we‘ll be shaping, topping and baking later today. There were lots of hints and tips about dough last night though, and even though this is a pizza course, it was stated that this is just dough - use it however you wish. Anyway, a couple of things:

- salt should be 2% of the flour by weight. If you have to correct a wet dough by adding flour, don’t forget the extra salt!
- the water/flour ratio largely defines the bread type. Typical loaf ~65-67%, ciabatta ~70-75% and focaccia at a wet 80%
- the higher the protein level (‘strength’) of the flour, the longer it needs to autolyse (absorb the water). 12-14% ideal for pizza (mine is at 15% so a little high but with a long overnight prove should be ok).
- longer time, cold water and low yeast level is best; the use of lots of yeast and warm water allows a rapid result at the expense of structure and flavour.