The Budget

[T4tomo]

From what I understand, it is an issue mainly for small producers of lager, who use those sizes, but not really an issue for small producers of real ale, who mainly use 72 litre casks.

So is there an issue? Yes. Is the 40 litre limit specially designed by "the crooks in charge" to "help out their rich friends", as claimed by the Facebook poster? No, it's almost certainly an oversight by someone not familiar with the lager side of things. So that does rather lend credence to the "knob on facebook" theory.

You're wrong.
Yes traditional real ale from traditional breweries does come in firkins. Craft ale and micro breweries use a lot of keykegs.
https://www.keykeg.com/en/home
lager smarger

 

[theclaud]

From what I understand, it is an issue mainly for small producers of lager, who use those sizes, but not really an issue for small producers of real ale (which I am more familiar with), who mainly use 72 litre casks.

So is there an issue? Yes. Is the 40 litre limit specially designed by "the crooks in charge" to "help out their rich friends", as claimed by the Facebook poster? No, it's almost certainly an oversight by someone not familiar with the lager side of things. So that does rather lend credence to the "knob on facebook" theory.

You are way behind the times.


View: https://twitter.com/JollyGoodBeer/status/1453344465087827969?s=20

 

[craigwend]

sorry can't see - my duckduckgo blocks anything from facebook.

The original person who posted it 'Bryan Spooner' - & I don't know him...

 

[Chislenko]

Fair do's, the big hammer keeps striking on on the pein of those who speak.

The rule of thumb decrees, for every thousand of you that has an opinion there is one of us with the authority to quash it.

 

[Drago]

Not being a commercial brewist, just an enthusiastic home dipso, is there any significant barrier to these small breweries upping to the larger barrels? Is it cost, convenience, commercial inertia, or had they simply not thought of it?

 

[T4tomo]

Not being a commercial brewist, just an enthusiastic home dipso, is there any significant barrier to these small breweries upping to the larger barrels? Is it cost, convenience, commercial inertia, or had they simply not thought of it?

its the ability of the retail outlet to get through the volume of a niche craft ale before it goes off that is the main barrier. Your bog standard large brewery lager sells in larger volumes and contains more chemical preservatives. Thus buying in smaller volumes allows an outlet to stock a wider choice and have less risk of wastage. A lot of these specialist craft ale bars like to run a choice of 6-10+ ales, where as the Red Lion traditionally stocked best and a premium or two. E.g Theakstons Best, Theakstons XB & Old Peculier, and if you want your local landlord to take a risk on something your brewing in your garage, they will be keener to take a risk on a smaller barrel.

Plus i think those keykegs are a fairly cheap system to run with as start up, rather than investing a load of stainless steel firkins etc. You can distribute to the retail trade in those and subcontract canning to bigger brewer / 3rd party who have invested in a canning line (also not cheap) for the online / home buyer.

I see this morning Rishi is looking into revising it. Also the photo of him and Boris holding barrels promoting it, were 30l mini barrels!

 

[JBGooner]

Small brewers, below about 500,000 litres (?), do get a 50% reduction in beer duty already though. Which I think was pretty important in getting the whole craft beer 'revolution' going.

Although this is something the govt is looking to change in order to help the 'mid-scale' brewers I believe.
Probably change coming from civil servants who have been well dined.

 

[mudsticks]

its the ability of the retail outlet to get through the volume of a niche craft ale before it goes off that is the main barrier. Your bog standard large brewery lager sells in larger volumes and contains more chemical preservatives. Thus buying in smaller volumes allows an outlet to stock a wider choice and have less risk of wastage. A lot of these specialist craft ale bars like to run a choice of 6-10+ ales, where as the Red Lion traditionally stocked best and a premium or two. E.g Theakstons Best, Theakstons XB & Old Peculier, and if you want your local landlord to take a risk on something your brewing in your garage, they will be keener to take a risk on a smaller barrel.

Plus i think those keykegs are a fairly cheap system to run with as start up, rather than investing a load of stainless steel firkins etc. You can distribute to the retail trade in those and subcontract canning to bigger brewer / 3rd party who have invested in a canning line (also not cheap) for the online / home buyer.

I see this morning Rishi is looking into revising it. Also the photo of him and Boris holding barrels promoting it, were 30l mini barrels!

My son runs a small but popular bar selling more of the high end craft beers and ciders.

To have enough of a selection to keep the punters happy, but to also keep it fresh, and stored in a relatively small space, then smaller volume kegs are needed.

Of course his bar prices reflect this - and i think most of his clientele are bright enough to understand pricing is very much affected by economies of scale - but it seems unnecessarily unfair to penalise the smaller outlet in this way.

 

[T4tomo]

Of course his bar prices reflect this - and i think most of his clientele are bright enough to understand pricing is very much affected by economies of scale

Its a very different clientele to Weatherspoons...

 

[Drago]

I'd rather drink from my own toilet bowl than sup a pint at a Wetherspoons. I'm the man with no standards, but even I won't stoop that low!

 

[mudsticks]

Its a very different clientele to Weatherspoons...

It is..
Although he's been known to nip down to spoons for a cavery of a Sunday, I believe .

His prices do also make deflecting the spoons crowd away from his outside tables, a tad easier, as they make their 'merry' way home, I guess.

 

[mjr]

CyclingUK's response to the budget: https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/gove...rse-meet-its-2025-cycling-targets-so-what-now

"There have been plenty of fine words, not just on cycling and walking, but also on many other aspects of sustainability.

Yet the Chancellor's Spending Review, announced yesterday, 27 October 2021, has left sustainable transport campaigners and other environmental groups bitterly disappointed.

From Cycling UK's perspective, there is no new funding for cycling and walking. Therefore, on the face of it, the Department for Transport (DfT) is still not on course to meet its cycling and walking targets for 2025.

[...] meeting this target would require investment of £6-8bn between 2020 and 2025. [...]

In short: we've made a lot of progress - and investment in cycling and walking in England is at last moving towards to the right ballpark, creating opportunities that local councils now need to seize. But we also still have long, long way to go!"

 

[I like Skol]

Of course his bar prices reflect this - and i think most of his clientele are bright enough to understand pricing is very much affected by economies of scale - but it seems unnecessarily unfair to penalise the smaller outlet in this way.

I may be missing a point, but why should tax revenues be sacrificed/used to subsidise the trendy drinks of the usually affluent chattering classes?
Surely they can actually afford the real cost of their 'on trend' drinks without help from the tax payer and economy? I can think of much better uses for the pot, cycling promotion for a start.

 

[Blue Hills]

I may be missing a point, but why should tax revenues be sacrificed/used to subsidise the trendy drinks of the usually affluent chattering classes?
Surely they can actually afford the real cost of their 'on trend' drinks without help from the tax payer and economy? I can think of much better uses for the pot, cycling promotion for a start.

to clarify, which are these "trendy drinks of the usually affluent chattering classes"?

 

[mudsticks]

I may be missing a point, but why should tax revenues be sacrificed/used to subsidise the trendy drinks of the usually affluent chattering classes?
Surely they can actually afford the real cost of their 'on trend' drinks without help from the tax payer and economy? I can think of much better uses for the pot, cycling promotion for a start.

It's about smaller businesses, and start ups who are doing things differently, innovating and so on, being able to thrive in a industry dominated by the big corporations.

Not all discerning drinkers are loaded.
They may be on relatively low incomes if they are studying or in other less well paid occupation.

For instance, people like myself, who know what it takes to produce a product with some integrity, who wish to support others doing the same.

We know it's not easy.

It's often the case that larger breweries (and other businesses) will hook onto and exploit markets that have been created and developed initially by the smaller more creative producers..

I suspect if I asked those drinkers whether they'd be into more and better cycling infrastrucure in the city , they'd give it the thumbs up .

There's usually a fixie or two propped in the corner, of the bar..

Next question ??