The cost of train journeys

[KneesUp]

We have friends in Newcastle, which is about 300 miles round trip from our house (allowing for getting lost at some point) The smallest member of the family loves to travel by train, and as we will be going there and back in a day in all likelihood (and I'll be driving if we go by car) I've just been looking into travelling by train.

The train journey looks like this:

8:15 Leave home, drive to the in-laws
8:45 Get tram from in-laws to train station (NB we could get the bus from near our house, but the tram is a lot easier)
9:20 Get on train
11:30 Arrive Newcastle
11:45 arrive at meeting point
The return is the same, except there might be one change, depending on which train we get.

Total cost with railcard - £67.70. Plus £30 for the railcard, but if we had one of those we might use it for other journeys I guess, so I'm not counting that. Still, that's £72 with the trams, and if we miss a train we have to pay again as it's the cheap tickets for specific trains.

On the other hand, the car leaves from outside our house, whenever we are ready, and comes back when we are ready. and will cost about £38 plus £4 to park when we get there - so £42 all in for travel - which coincidentally is 42% cheaper than going by train - and according to google it's about 15 minutes faster each way too.

Are train journeys too expensive? And is this because the service is run for profit rather than to benefit all of society? (I have no doubt that it would be much better for the environment for us to travel on a train that is going to go to Newcastle anyway.)

 

[swee'pea99]

Have you factored in all the car costs or just the petrol? Depreciation is the one most people seem to overlook, but since a £12,000 car becomes a £5,000 car in, say, four years, that's almost £2,000 every year, in real money, (about £40/week) before you even think about going to Newcastle. Then there's maintenance, insurance, AA...

 

[Crackle]

You need to include insurance, maintenance, tax and depreciation in your car calcs but yeah, trains are not cheap as a one off method of travel.

 

[Electric_Andy]

depends on where you buy the ticket, and when, and for which journey. A friend got an off-peak return from Truro to Exeter (90 odd miles) for £10.60 which is much cheaper than driving, but my return from Plymouth to London (plus zone 1 pass) was £263.

 

[KneesUp]

I've not factored in depreciation because

a) the car will depreciate whether I drive it or not - albeit it will depreciate slightly less if I don't use it
b) my car is 9 years old and has 125k miles on it. As it's Japanese it's barely run in, but it's not worth much, so can't depreciate much

Similarly I pay my breakdown cover and insurance annually, and would have to do so regardless because I own a car - so I've not counted them the same way I haven't counted the family railcard for the train.

 

[mjr]

Firstly, you don't say where you are and I don't remember, so I can't check if that's the cheapest train cost, or if that's a motoring cost including the wear-and-tear or only the fuel.

Secondly, google's car planner time is very optimistic to start with and also doesn't include necessary driver breaks or changeovers. Plus, if you plan it far before departure, it assumes there won't be any delays caused by other motorists (rare in my experience).

Thirdly, you seem to be assuming that the time spent driving is worthless. Wouldn't you rather spend time interacting properly with your family instead of only giving them a fraction of attention while you concentrate on motoring diligently? (It often surprises me how many people throw a fit about self-service tills but think self-service motor transport is a great idea.) How much is time with your family worth to you?

But finally, yes, train journeys are too expensive and it's partly because the service is run for profit. I think it's also partly because successive governments have decided that the public isn't willing to pay for the benefits to the country of an efficient public transport network, or even continue paying for the part we did have and so passengers should bear more of the cost of being public-spirited.

 

[AndyRM]

Can't we merge this thread with the countless other 'Trying to Justify Using the Car Instead of the Train' threads...?

You'll upset Arrowfoot with such suggestions!

 

[PK99]

We have friends in Newcastle, which is about 300 miles round trip from our house (allowing for getting lost at some point) The smallest member of the family loves to travel by train, and as we will be going there and back in a day in all likelihood (and I'll be driving if we go by car) I've just been looking into travelling by train.

The train journey looks like this:

8:15 Leave home, drive to the in-laws
8:45 Get tram from in-laws to train station (NB we could get the bus from near our house, but the tram is a lot easier)
9:20 Get on train
11:30 Arrive Newcastle
11:45 arrive at meeting point
The return is the same, except there might be one change, depending on which train we get.

Total cost with railcard - £67.70. Plus £30 for the railcard, but if we had one of those we might use it for other journeys I guess, so I'm not counting that. Still, that's £72 with the trams, and if we miss a train we have to pay again as it's the cheap tickets for specific trains.

On the other hand, the car leaves from outside our house, whenever we are ready, and comes back when we are ready. and will cost about £38 plus £4 to park when we get there - so £42 all in for travel - which coincidentally is 42% cheaper than going by train - and according to google it's about 15 minutes faster each way too.

Are train journeys too expensive? And is this because the service is run for profit rather than to benefit all of society? (I have no doubt that it would be much better for the environment for us to travel on a train that is going to go to Newcastle anyway.)

You have only looked at the marginal petrol cost of the car journey.

The AA puts total running cost at 19-30p per mile = £57 - 90 (petrol, tyres, service etc)
Add in Standing costs (VED, insurance, cost of capital, depreciation, breakdown cover etc) and cost per mile on a typical car is around 50p per mile at !5,000 miles per year = £150 for a 300 mile journey.

(numbers are 2014 so a little out of date)

http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/running-costs/petrol2014.pdf

 

[ianrauk]

Just take your car. You know you want to. Far easier and comfortable then the train.

 

[mjr]

Similarly I pay my breakdown cover and insurance annually, and would have to do so regardless because I own a car - so I've not counted them the same way I haven't counted the family railcard for the train.

My motor insurance last year was mileage-linked, but that policy seems to have been withdrawn. I expect there are similar policies available that I didn't find time to seek out at last renewal.

 

[Beebo]

You similarly pay a share towards the cost of our railways whether you use them or not, making it foolish not to.

I pay my fair share towards prison too, but i am not planning to use up my quota.

 

[nickyboy]

You have only looked at the marginal petrol cost of the car journey.

The AA puts total running cost at 19-30p per mile = £57 - 90 (petrol, tyres, service etc)
Add in Standing costs (VED, insurance, cost of capital, depreciation, breakdown cover etc) and cost per mile on a typical car is around 50p per mile at !5,000 miles per year = £150 for a 300 mile journey.

(numbers are 2014 so a little out of date)

http://www.theaa.com/resources/Documents/pdf/motoring-advice/running-costs/petrol2014.pdf

It's not unreasonable to only look at the marginal cost of the journey if it's a one off. If the OP was making weekly journeys or whatever then other costs have to be considered.

If I'm travelling alone I'll often take the train as one ticket isn't too much more expensive than my marginal cost of driving in return for the utility I get in being able to relax on the train or do some work on it. Family journey.....car, unless I can get a really good advance deal

 

[Fnaar]

Just being in Newcastle will offset any other considerations or costs.

 

[vernon]

You can prove almost anything if you are selective with the parameters for the financial modelling.

I have enjoyed a couple of FNRttC rides from Hyde Park Corner and one of Dellzeq's achitecture tours in London having never paid more than £30 for the 400 mile round trip from Leeds. The Southern Railway super savers are an incredibly good value way of returning to London from the end of a FNRttC.

Enjoying a leisurely nap both ways and being able to purchase and consume refreshments without the inconvenience of having to break the journey and without fear of distraction added value to the journeys.

Equally when doing LEJOG and JOGLE I've reached the extremities or returned from the extremities of the country for less than £50.

I suggest that the fare pricing of the railways is based upon the solo traveller and, at peak times, upon the solo business traveller. The pricing structure suits me fine I think that the off peak fares are wonderful value for money.

 

[KneesUp]

I'm not especially concerned about the time 'not interacting properly' with my family to be honest. I drop my child off at school each day, and collect her 2 or 3 days out of five. I am not there when she goes to bed perhaps 10 nights per year. I spent every other day with her when she was under school age, and spend every other day with her in school holidays unless we are on holiday when obviously I spend every day with her.

And you can chat in the car. And play games (i-Spy is a bit dull, granted) And sing songs. And learn things from podcasts or Radio 4. And listen to the football. We do all of those things.