The cost of train journeys

[Hitchington]

I love travelling by train, and yes it can be bloomin' expensive but a canny traveller can make the most of booking in advance (i regularly get returns to lake district for £40-60 from London). I'm a disciple of the man in seat 61 http://www.seat61.com/

 

[nickyboy]

The quality and depth of your public transport infrastructure is very much dependent on where you live in the UK. There is plenty of analysis that shows the per capita spend on public transport varies wildly by region; London has by far the highest, then SE England. In the provinces, a few hotspots excepted, it is poor.

So the argument about cars and public transport needs to be viewed through the lens of where you live in the UK. Sure, live in SE England and you may well be able to manage quite well without a car. In London I'm sure a car is actually a hindrance. But elsewhere? The time spent trying to work the transport system means a car is the best option

As an example, I live about 20 miles from Sheffield, one of the biggest cities in the UK. I could drive there, it takes about half an hour. Or I could take public transport. Train from Glossop to Manchester is half an hour. Then a train from Manchester to Sheffield is 50 minutes. So including the 15 minute walk to the station it's probably about 1hr 45 minutes all in. Or I can spend half an hour driving plus, say, 15 minutes parking

 

[martint235]

The quality and depth of your public transport infrastructure is very much dependent on where you live in the UK. There is plenty of analysis that shows the per capita spend on public transport varies wildly by region; London has by far the highest, then SE England. In the provinces, a few hotspots excepted, it is poor.

So the argument about cars and public transport needs to be viewed through the lens of where you live in the UK. Sure, live in SE England and you may well be able to manage quite well without a car. In London I'm sure a car is actually a hindrance. But elsewhere? The time spent trying to work the transport system means a car is the best option

As an example, I live about 20 miles from Sheffield, one of the biggest cities in the UK. I could drive there, it takes about half an hour. Or I could take public transport. Train from Glossop to Manchester is half an hour. Then a train from Manchester to Sheffield is 50 minutes. So including the 15 minute walk to the station it's probably about 1hr 45 minutes all in. Or I can spend half an hour driving plus, say, 15 minutes parking

I think you also need to factor in the effect that where you live has on other qualities of public transport. For example in the SE, yes there is a frequent train service direct into London but it is massively over-subscribed. It's also built entirely around getting people to and from the centre. Try to go tangentially across the suburbs of London and you'll hit issues unless you want to go into and then out of the centre (which naturally increases cost).

I did see pictures of full trains up north on the telly box but when I go to East Lancashire, the train is often near empty from Blackburn onwards.

I've never owned a car, either when I lived up north or now in the SE. One thing I've noticed that has changed over the years is that fact people have forgotten they have feet and legs. I accept there are people who's circumstances mean they can't walk any kind of distance but there's an awful lot of people who should be able to walk a couple of miles easily enough.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

Total cost with railcard - £67.70. Plus £30 for the railcard, but if we had one of those we might use it for other journeys I guess, so I'm not counting that. Still, that's £72 with the trams, and if we miss a train we have to pay again as it's the cheap tickets for specific trains.

Which railcard are you factoring in? If I remember rightly there's the 'two together' (finally!!) and there's also a 'friends and family'. If your child is over 5 I think the family one is the one to go for. Master SHK is still under 5 so we use the two together.

 

[sheddy]

Do you have to pay again if a train is missed ?
I was told that you can catch the next one (provided it is the same Train Company) but obviously won't be guaranteed a seat.

 

[martint235]

Do you have to pay again if a train is missed ?
I was told that you can catch the next one (provided it is the same Train Company) but obviously won't be guaranteed a seat.

Depends on your ticket. If you've booked an Advance Saver and miss your train (for example by the incompetence of Southeastern Railways) you'll be expected to buy a new ticket. You may get sympathy if you really, really plead but often that doesn't work.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

If you miss your train because of another train's oops I think you usually are allowed to catch the next train going. If you miss it because of something unrelated to a train (like a bus, tram, or car...) your tough luck.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

 

[martint235]

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The small print probably has something along the lines of if the connecting service is provided by the same train company.

I'm old enough to remember "proper" connecting services that we sold as such. This meant if your train was delayed, the connecting service was held to wait for it. I can see why they got rid though, it could cause chaos at places like Preston.

 

[jefmcg]

Due to my aversion to cycling in bad weather, I would be doing this at fairly short notice; so no opportunity to take advantage of booking weeks ahead.

Southern have a guarantee, so if you don't collect the ticket you can get your money back http://www.southernrailway.com/offers/money-back-guarantee/

Assuming you know in advance that you will go on a particular weekend if the weather is suitable, you could book and advanced fare.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

The small print probably has something along the lines of if the connecting service is provided by the same train company.

Perhaps but that quote is a direct lift from the national terms of carriage, so I'd stand my ground. I did once get stuck with split tickets where my train from Manchester didn't run, I was holding 3 or 4 tickets for the journey (it was cheaper, significantly, to do that!); the train ran from Stoke or somewhere instead, so by the time it came to the follow-on ticket they said well, that train did run to the connecting station; I said well I couldn't get to it... We eventually compromised on me paying a part ticket I think.

 

[nickyboy]

I have been thinking about doing the Way of the Roses again, but west to east this time. It would involve driving to Morecambe, then getting a train back from Bridlington to collect the car. Due to my aversion to cycling in bad weather, I would be doing this at fairly short notice; so no opportunity to take advantage of booking weeks ahead. The price, for a single from Bridlington to Morecambe? SIXTY THREE of your English pounds!! (There does not appear to be any off peak option in my search for 21st March). It also involves at least 2 changes of train, and a total journey time of nearly 5 hours. Outrageous. It's less than 140 miles by road.
Given a choice between driving and public transport; for me the car wins every time. More convenient, more comfortable, doesn't smell, no loud obnoxious passengers, and is cheaper. I am one of those unusual people who still quite enjoys driving unless stuck in traffic (which is normally easily avoided anywhere north of Manchester), so it's really a no-brainer.

I've just seen this. Regarding you not being able to find an off peak option I think I know what the problem is

If you select a multi-leg journey and any leg of that journey is only available at a standard price (so no off peak or advance), the whole journey is priced at standard price.

I have exactly this issue. If I book Llandudno - Glossop I can't get an advance ticket because Manchester - Glossop doesn't offer this ticket option.

The answer is to buy separate tickets. In my case, Llandudno - Manchester as an advance. Then a separate Manchester - Glossop.

I played around with Bridlington - Morecambe and you can definitely buy Bridlington - Seamer - Leeds - Morecambe for about £40 as 3 separate tickets

 

[SavageHoutkop]

If you select a multi-leg journey and any leg of that journey is only available at a standard price (so no off peak or advance), the whole journey is priced at standard price.

^ This. Once wanted to buy East Didsbury -> Edinburgh. Two trains, short local East Didsbury -> Manchester Airport, then Manchester Airport -> Edinburgh.
East Didsbury -> Airport = £2 walk up fare or something similar.
However, buying the 'through ticket' made the price more than double.

 

[swee'pea99]

Horses for courses really. Fiddly journeys to or from the back o' beyond, or any journey that has to be done now, it really has to be the car. But when I took my trip up to the Western Isles last year, London>Glasgow rtn (booked well in advance) was £53 - nor was the train smelly, dirty or packed with oafs. On the contrary, it was a very comfortable and pleasant journey; one which, in a car, would have been a gruelling nightmare - and a lot more than £53, even just on petrol.

 

[KneesUp]

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Which is great, unless you miss it because the bus you were on to get to the train station was delayed, or any number of other reasons beyond ones control.

I should also point out that the prices for the train are booked in advance (well in advance) and are the cheapest available.