Discussion in 'Beginners' started by Debian, 30 Apr 2010.
Firstly I have read it as opposed to looked at it! The key words are "whenever you can". Nowhere does it say a road user comming up hill has right of way. In other examples for giving way in the highway code it will say who has right of way.
Its not a question of right or wrong or etiquette. Its a question of self preservation. Cyclists as vulnerable road users must be ready to give way when going uphill,because, if you think for one moment, larger road users are going to give way to you, you really are living in cloud cukoo land!
Neither does the law support this,as I have first hand experience of. Ive witnessed two fatal crashes on mountain roads,one of which was a good friend of mine. Both involved drivers not giving way when they had, had the chance going uphill. The first was prosecuted and convicted. The second lost his life.
Mechanical breakdown is not the only reason for being out of control or unable to stop on a descent Arch. Weather conditions , road conditions and incompetence can be factors to. I can only suppose you dont do much riding on single track moutain roads in Winter. Where I live its par for the course. With 90% of the roads untreated.The vast majority of road users give way when going uphill....Why? because they know the likely Outcome if they don t.
And by the way giving way does not allways mean stopping, and I give way as a cyclist and a motorist WHEN EVER I CAN because im just a nice guy
Grass b I think you know exactly what Im saying. The others I can excuse.
Remember we are in begginers here, And safety has got to be the priority.
Seeing someone dying through lack of common sense is just a sensless waste.
Well, no, not many mountains round here.... Does that make me a lesser person or something?
The fact remains that the HC advice is to give way to people coming uphill, if possible, which is the opposite of what you said. Obviously common snse comes into it, but I doubt very much that the majority of people who barge through regardless are doing it out of common sense.
And remember, dragging this back to the OP, the person coming downhill was on the wrong side of the track, applying the general rule of the road - keep left. And yet expected someone coming uphill to give way to her. She wasn't applying much common sense, was she?
That is not what Ive said I have only commented on giving way whilst going up hill. I have not mentioned giving way whilst going downhill.
@lukesdad - I have no idea why you're getting in a tizzy about this .
Firstly, the HC clearly says that when possible always give way to a vehicle travelling uphill. Where's the ambiguity?
Secondly, clearly Law 43 must always prevail, in all situations. No one ever has "right of way" on a road, you may have priority but never right, not even at a green traffic light.
Finally, my OP concerned a cyclist travelling downhill and on the wrong side of the road who then clearly expected me to give way to her. No common sense there at all.
Simply Debian, because you have posted this in beginners. Had you posted it in racing or offroad and mountainbiking (where it should have been in my opinion) I probably wouldn t have even posted.
Their personal safety should be their first concern. Narrow roads on hills are particularly hazardous for new cyclists struggling to climb them, zig zagging, clipless moments etc. Giving way as I understand the term means to allow some one to pass safely. As a cyclist it should be a matter of course to do this when riding uphill, anything else is madness for reasons Ive allready stated. To imply to novices any other course of action IMO is irresponsible.
Your OP is a perfect example. From a distance you observed someone descending at speed on a loose surface. ( Now Im not making a judgement on what she was doing,Right or wrong that is what she was doing.) I assume you XC fairly regularly so you know the mindset when they descend. Did it not occur to you to give her as wide a berth as possible I.e.to give way to preserve your own personal safety?
Certainly no ambiguity from the point of view of going downhill, but what about from the point of view of the one going up. Not a lot of advice there..... What would yours be?.....Oh! Silly me. As in your OP I expect, carry on regardless untill its almost to late then give way. You can only control your own actions, not other peoples.
Two things Ive learnt in my years of cycling; Always expect the unexpected,and if you put yourself in danger expect to get hurt.
I have no argument with your last point.
But I do have issues with the rest of the post:
This incident is being blown a little out of proportion first of all. The road is basically that - a road, albeit a loose surfaced country lane and a Restricted Byway. It's about nine feet wide so not exactly short of space. It's not exactly a twisty, root-ridden singletrack!
Pedestrian was walking on her right which is correct according to the HC.
I was on my left, also correct.
So the pedestrian and me were on the same side of the road. The other cyclist I couldn't initially tell what side of the road she was on as the lane bends to the right at this point as well as going uphill. So all I saw was a head and upper body descending quickly, but not maniacly so.
Anyway, whatever the situation I was close in to the left and the descending cyclist was going to have to move out to my right anyway - unless she wanted to mow down the pedestrian - so I felt totally justified in staying exactly where I was.
So the other cyclist moves over to my right, overtakes the pedestrian and then cuts back into a head on position with me...! By this time there is only a matter of yards between us.
Please tell me lukesdad, what should I have done differently - apart from mind-read or use the force, that is?
Not the best of pictures but it's the best I can get off Streetview. It's the lane on the left.
You can't win - as I found out yesterday. Even if there are foot high letters saying KEEP LEFT on the road surface they still come around corners on the right and complain that you're in their way. Chalk it up to self-centred idiocy. Lucky you didn't both move out to avoid each other at the same time...
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