The modern driving test.

[Alex321]

Interesting you mention speed and showing off.

An incident recently not far from here where some young show off was going a bit quick in a Porsche and crashed into an Indian restaurant.

The papers were full of wailing and gnashing of teeth at the high powered sports car, while completely overlooking the fact that that it was a 60mpg crash and my gears old Metro 1.0 automatic could do 60. That it was a high powered sports car was utterly irrelevant to the physics of the incident.

I've been riding motorbikes for 37 years and not had an off. Were I to get into a sticky situation on the road on a bike I'd far rather do so on a big bike with massive brakes and handling and stability to spare, than be in the same situation on a CG125 which is on the ragged edge of its brakes and handling at the national speed limit.

Most incidents caused or brought by excessive speed are at velocities that very mundane cars or bikes can easily achieve.

While this is all very true, there is a major difference in how those speeds are achieved.

The Porsche will probably be doing 60 while your metro would only have been up to 40 - so there will be stretches of road where he can hit 60 but you can't, because there isn't enough distance before having to slow again.

Then add to that the fact he probably has better brakes and tyres, and any mistake he makes can easily be exacerbated. If it takes 10 seconds to slow from 60 to a stop, and you are late by a second, you are probably down to 10mph or less by the point where you should have stopped. If it take 5 seconds and you are late by a second, you are probably still doing 30+ at that point (slowing is not linear).

It also takes much less of an over-pressure on the throttle to lose control of the car as you are accelerating. So inexperienced drivers in control of powerful cars is a recipe for trouble, even if they are only going at the speed a small low powered can can achieve.

 

[icowden]

It'll be interesting to see how this progresses. Based on my EV:

• No clutch or handbrake
• Car manages hill starts for you
• Car will reverse park and parallel park for you
• Car will accelerate and brake for you
• Car will steer for you and keep in lane if travelling over 40mph
• Car will emergency brake and control steering if it suspects an imminent collision
• Car will slow down and stop if it detects a medical emergency happening to the driver.

Essentially, if you can steer, you can use an EV. The driving skills required are really minimal.

Side note: The VW Intelligent IQ LED lights are utterly amazing. This is the future of lights in cars. They look round corners, they illumine the road without (I hope) dazzling the driver in front. They are quite something compared to the old halogens of my Scenic.

 

[Smokin Joe]

F

Your mistake was trying to teach her to drive, that is not the name of the game, the game is to teach them to pass their test, whether they can drive & capable of being on the road is irrelevant.

How do you teach someone to pass their test without teaching them to drive? In two decades as an ADI I never managed to do that.

 

[icowden]

How do you teach someone to pass their test without teaching them to drive? In two decades as an ADI I never managed to do that.

Teaching someone to drive doesn't mean that you have taught what they need to pass the test. You need the mirror, signal maneuvre, then 10 to 2 hands, etc to pass the test, not just the ability to drive the car.

In the same way, I can do Maths and English pretty well but I couldn't get an A at GCSE base on what my daughter has been learning.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

How do you teach someone to pass their test without teaching them to drive? In two decades as an ADI I never managed to do that.

Should you actually be admitting that in 2 decades as an ADI you've never taught anybody to pass a test

Sorry but it's always been the way, it's the way the vast majority of the way teaching it done in this country, the whole school system is only teaching people enough to pass their test & driving is no different, you are teaching them to the barest minimum requirement. You only learn to drive, well some people do after they have passed their test, it's called experience. The problem, or rather one of many is that people now believe they are entitled to drive & have no concept of how dangerous it is cocooned in their little boxes.

If you're insulted then Sorry, but you are only teaching them to pass the test, not to learn to drive, maybe my warped definition but opinions are like asreholes we all have them.

 

[icowden]

Sorry but it's always been the way, it's the way the vast majority of the way teaching it done in this country, the whole school system is only teaching people enough to pass their test & driving is no different, you are teaching them to the barest minimum requirement. You only learn to drive, well some people do after they have passed their test, it's called experience. The problem, or rather one of many is that people now believe they are entitled to drive & have no concept of how dangerous it is cocooned in their little boxes.

It can also work the other. In the rural settings around my parents, it's common for youngsters to learn driving round the fields. So by the time they get to legal driving age they can drive but not pass a driving test as they already have bad habits.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Should you actually be admitting that in 2 decades as an ADI you've never taught anybody to pass a test



If you're insulted then Sorry, but you are only teaching them to pass the test, not to learn to drive, maybe my warped definition but opinions are like asreholes we all have them.

I'm not insulted and I trust you won't be when I tell you that you are talking ill informed crap. A candidate on test has to prove that he/she can drive to a minimum safe standard that doesn't endanger or inconvenience other road users in all situations that occur over a forty five minute period.

Now of course once they have passed they are safe but not experienced, that can't be taught but only comes with time. A bit like a rookie pilot, just qualified but still safe enough for an airliner.

And don't think experienced drivers are better - I came across enough long term drivers aspiring to take the IAM test to tell you differently.

 

[icowden]

As a side note, I was always amused by my Grandma's story of learning to drive (She was born in 1919).
She failed her first test for failing to pass a horse-drawn carriage.
She failed her second test for being too gung-ho in passing a horse-drawn carriage.
She passed 3rd time in time to drive in the Second World War.

 

[lazybloke]

While this is all very true, there is a major difference in how those speeds are achieved.

The Porsche will probably be doing 60 while your metro would only have been up to 40 - so there will be stretches of road where he can hit 60 but you can't, because there isn't enough distance before having to slow again.

Then add to that the fact he probably has better brakes and tyres, and any mistake he makes can easily be exacerbated. If it takes 10 seconds to slow from 60 to a stop, and you are late by a second, you are probably down to 10mph or less by the point where you should have stopped. If it take 5 seconds and you are late by a second, you are probably still doing 30+ at that point (slowing is not linear).

For a few mins i had the insane idea that although a porsche accelerates faster than a metro, it would cover the same distance to reach a given speed, say, 60mph.

I had to resort to O Level Applied Maths, and the equations of motion, to prove myself wrong.

 

[tyred]

It can also work the other. In the rural settings around my parents, it's common for youngsters to learn driving round the fields. So by the time they get to legal driving age they can drive but not pass a driving test as they already have bad habits.

I fit in that category. You can have great fun drifting a 2L Cortina on wet grass but I don't think a driving examiner would be impressed.

 

[BoldonLad]

While this is all very true, there is a major difference in how those speeds are achieved.

The Porsche will probably be doing 60 while your metro would only have been up to 40 - so there will be stretches of road where he can hit 60 but you can't, because there isn't enough distance before having to slow again.

Then add to that the fact he probably has better brakes and tyres, and any mistake he makes can easily be exacerbated. If it takes 10 seconds to slow from 60 to a stop, and you are late by a second, you are probably down to 10mph or less by the point where you should have stopped. If it take 5 seconds and you are late by a second, you are probably still doing 30+ at that point (slowing is not linear).

It also takes much less of an over-pressure on the throttle to lose control of the car as you are accelerating. So inexperienced drivers in control of powerful cars is a recipe for trouble, even if they are only going at the speed a small low powered can can achieve.

I was (not now) a BMW Owner/driver. I actually read the hand book. In the section discussing the various safety. features (traction control, anti-lock brakes etc etc), was the phrase "these devices do not allow the vehicle to defy the laws of physics", or words to that effect, very apt I thought.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

It can also work the other. In the rural settings around my parents, it's common for youngsters to learn driving round the fields. So by the time they get to legal driving age they can drive but not pass a driving test as they already have bad habits.

Yep both my two were driving by the age of 12, they were left to drive around a local airfield unsupervised once they had control, they both drove well in-excess of 1,000 miles each supervised on the road, I taught them to drive but the instructor taught them how to pass the test. They both had a 1 hour session to evaluate them then they had a 2 hour lesson before the test & then took the test in the instructors car, both past first time & 20 years later neither have been involved in any on road accidents.

I'm not insulted and I trust you won't be when I tell you that you are talking ill informed crap. A candidate on test has to prove that he/she can drive to a minimum safe standard that doesn't endanger or inconvenience other road users in all situations that occur over a forty five minute period.

Now of course once they have passed they are safe but not experienced, that can't be taught but only comes with time. A bit like a rookie pilot, just qualified but still safe enough for an airliner.

And don't think experienced drivers are better - I came across enough long term drivers aspiring to take the IAM test to tell you differently.

The word you used is correct it is a minimum, answer this if they advised you that they we going to change the test in 6 months & include X, you would change the way you teach, because the test requires X, it's nothing to do with teaching them how to drive, it's teaching them to pass a test, the byproduct of which is they can manoeuvre a car (well some can).

With regards to long term drivers you'll get no argument from me, every 5 years they should sit a refresher on the highway code & every 10 years a practical behind the wheel, but the powers that be have no interest in it.

 

[Smokin Joe]

With regards to long term drivers you'll get no argument from me, every 5 years they should sit a refresher on the highway code & every 10 years a practical behind the wheel, but the powers that be have no interest in it.

For a very good reason - it would be a waste of time.

 

[icowden]

For a very good reason - it would be a waste of time.

I actually think a 30 minute "continued driving assessment" every 3 years after the age of 70 would be very worthwhile. It doesn't have to be a full test, just an independent assessment that someone is still safe to be on the road - as opposed to our current voluntary method. The aforementioned grandmother stopped driving in her 70s - but only after her third car crash. The next 25 years she was driven by my mum when she needed driving. From about 98 onwards she decided that she didn't do driving anywhere except for the garden centre. She then remained in her house with my mum from about 102 to 103 when she passed...

 

[Ming the Merciless]

For a few mins i had the insane idea that although a porsche accelerates faster than a metro, it would cover the same distance to reach a given speed, say, 60mph.

I had to resort to O Level Applied Maths, and the equations of motion, to prove myself wrong.

Are you sure?

View: https://youtu.be/ofSmqgyMs2s