The old argument of wearing a cycle helmet. For & against.

[Red Light]

everyone being forced to wear helmets is not the same as everyone choosing to wear helmets. I suppose the data would be different if the later were the case.

As many here are pro helmet and not pro compulsion that is what you should be referring too.


Do you have data on that?

Not sure why you think people being force to wear helmets rather than it being voluntary makes a difference. Whether its consential or not, if helmets really did protect, the large drop in unhelmeted cyclists should, if you and others were correct, be accompanied by a large drop in cyclist head injuries. But it isn't. Moreover in the case of Ontario where the law was not enforced and wearing levels dropped back to pre-law levels, head injuries did not increase either.

But the non- compulsion data is available. For example Hewson's two studies on the UK datasets. He found no evidence of a safety benefit from helmet wearing in either adults or children. Also Rodgers review of 8 million cyclist accidents in the US over 15 years that found that helmeted cyclists had a higher fatality risk than unhelmeted ones.

 

[ufkacbln]

everyone being forced to wear helmets is not the same as everyone choosing to wear helmets. I suppose the data would be different if the later were the case.

As many here are pro helmet and not pro compulsion that is what you should be referring too.


Do you have data on that?

The concept of data is that you have a source, you look at the data nad then using a methodology that is robust, credible and verifiable see what that data shows.

The data we have is from countries and states where helmet wearing is (theoretically) 100% due to compulsion.

Whether that 100% is because the cyclists chose or were forced to wear them is an absolute red herring and irrelevance. The helmetmust work the same surely independently of the reason it is worn?



The simple fact is that in none of these cases has there been a significant reduction in head injuries and in some cases (not all) an increase reported.


To suggest that the data would be different would imply that there must be a distinction between a rider wearing a helmet through choice or compulsion which is a little naive

To support this we would then need to prove that the helmet functions differently in the two cases. Is it more effective when worn by choice rather than by compulsion?

Any data on that?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

everyone being forced to wear helmets is not the same as everyone choosing to wear helmets. I suppose the data would be different if the later were the case.

Why on earth should you suppose such a ridiculous idea?

Do you think the helmet knows if it is being worn because of legislation? Maybe the helmet sulks if it thinks the rider was forced to use it, or perhaps legislation increases gravity in that jurisdiction?

 

[JonnyBlade]

Oh but I can disprove. There is plenty of data about doing the experiment of what happens when you make everyone wear helmets and research on the UK accident databases. It shows that whatever happened to Anecdotal Philip, there is no evidence that helmets reduce cyclists head injuries overall. So either Philip's helmet actually made no difference or there is another anecdote somewhere of someone else having a more serious injury from wearing a helmet to keep the overall no effect balance. Either way its no evidence for the final exhortation of the OP.

It is interesting that he received serious neck injuries though. I wonder if his helmet played a role in those?

Who was it on another post that talked about the manipulation of figures and only taking seriously the data that suits your argument? Are you saying that you dispute that any helmet has averted head injury in any circumstances because I think that would be a rather silly outlook. Surely you only have to look at the fragility of children to understand the need for some sort of protection?

 

[steve52]

*Yawn*

how rude

 

[benb]

Oh yippee, another helmet thread.

Everyone knows what I think, so I'll just wish Pete a speedy recovery.

 

[david k]

oh ok, thought it may have an affect, if not fine im happy to accept it doesnt if the majority feel it so

So we are saying it makes no difference whether it is legislation that leads to helmet wearing or choice, therefore compulsion is not relevant to discussing helmet benefits?

 

[JonnyBlade]

If you have a more radical outlook surely the helmet might sulk?

Does the tree make a noise ......................... does the helmet want to protect the head if it is given a choice? wtf ........... I need to start drinking again lol

 

[david k]

Why on earth should you suppose such a ridiculous idea?

Do you think the helmet knows if it is being worn because of legislation? Maybe the helmet sulks if it thinks the rider was forced to use it, or perhaps legislation increases gravity in that jurisdiction?

bit of a childish reply?

it has been said that wearing a helmet alters behavior, so i was not referring to a helmet sulking. but as ive already posted if you and others feel it makes no difference then ill accept that as your view

see a reply without the need to ridicule, how about you giving it a try? that way we can debate without taking pot shots, im happy either way

 

[JonnyBlade]

oh ok, thought it may have an affect, if not fine im happy to accept it doesnt if the majority feel it so

So we are saying it makes no difference whether it is legislation that leads to helmet wearing or choice, therefore compulsion is not relevant to discussing helmet benefits?

I suppose the choice of wearing or not wearing a helmet could contribute to the way a rider rides his/her bike?

 

[david k]

If you have a more radical outlook surely the helmet might sulk?

Does the tree make a noise ......................... does the helmet want to protect the head if it is given a choice? wtf ........... I need to start drinking again lol

such comments like helmets sulking, only take the discussion away from the real agenda and turn this into tit for tat, or simply a joke Jonny.

 

[JonnyBlade]

how rude

+1

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

oh ok, thought it may have an affect, if not fine im happy to accept it doesnt if the majority feel it so

You still cling to this idea that a majority is a better measrurment then expertise?

 

[JonnyBlade]

such comments like helmets sulking, only take the discussion away from the real agenda and turn this into tit for tat, or simply a joke Jonny.

Hey I'm a confirmed helmet wearer. Have been and always will be. Just because we see the silly side of a discussion and act accordingly does not mean we turn our our back on serious discussion. It merely shows that we are not anal about the discussion point and can add to free debate in a more relaxed manner whilst taking into account the overall issues.
It's called general interaction

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

how rude

Really ? I thought the real rudeness was someone trying influence me ( and others ) on what to wear.