The perils of cheap ebikes

[ebikeerwidnes]

Another excuse for making it more of a PITA taking bikes on trains.

Regulation is the logical answer, but whilst nobody cares about people riding illegal e-bikes it's not going to make any difference. If they do manage to get the public interested it'll probably just fuel more anti-bike prejudice.

Thanks to Brexit, the import standards we already have are no longer being enforced.

The Guard's not going to be able to tell the difference, and probably won't want the responsibility of deciding either.

Why should it be the responsibility of the guard to be able to tell if an ebike is safe or not

If it is one of the franen-bikes with a massive dinner plate sized hub motor and a battery helpd on by gaffer tape then it is easy
but mine is a big lump on the down tube - OK it is a Raleigh with a Bosch battery and motor - but is the guard supposed to know this - or tell the difference between mine and one which someone has nailed some stickers to??

If I was a guard I would just say "no mate" to all of them because if one goes off and I have let it on the train then I would not be confident that the rail company would support me and not pull out a piece of paper that says it is up to me to let it on the train so the whole thing is my fault.

I do not know what the solution is - but making the guard responsible isn;t it
and anyway - a lot of companies are trying to eliminate the guard on some services
and I don;t think the DLR even has one!

 

[Slick]

Really?

Both tend to result in a burned out husk of a vehicle.

The only vehicle fire incident I can recall hearing of recently which resulted in more than that was the Luton airport car park - which started with a diesel car.

EV fires do tend to be a bit harder to put out, but it is not that common to have a fire extinguisher to put out a conventional vehicle fire before it destroys the vehicle.

https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

According to studies from both Denmark and Norway, there is actually less risk of fire in electric and hybrid cars than in conventional cars. The only problem is that when it does happen, the consequences can be greater, because a fire in a lithium battery is difficult to extinguish and can flare up again long after it has been extinguished.

Obviously, I'm no expert and can only go with the perceived wisdom of others.

It does make sense to me, but it is a reasonably newish risk in certain situations.

 

[PK99]

I can't imagine what would happen if one of those went off on a train full of people.
I think before long somethings going to be have to be done. But what?

I presume that the one that exploded on the platform was about to be taken o to a train full of people......

If it had exploded 5 minutes later your question might have been answered

 

[presta]

Why should it be the responsibility of the guard to be able to tell if an ebike is safe or not

The point I was answering is the expectation that legal bikes be allowed on trains, but not illegal ones, and I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with me or disagreeing.

At the time of boarding, the only arbiter of what's allowed on and what isn't will be the Guard, and he isn't in a position to tell whether or not the motor cuts out when the rider stops pedalling. I don't think he'll take kindly to his employers expecting him to do so, either.

 

[ianrauk]

I presume that the one that exploded on the platform was about to be taken o to a train full of people......

If it had exploded 5 minutes later your question might have been answered

Well, quite.

 

[albion]

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/netherlands-to-close-e-bike-speed-modification-loophole-5261

Whilst I much agree with this, the 'people should not be able to avoid a fine simply because they are alert to police presence' is perplexing.
Here, it is mandatory to warn about car speed cameras, thus making them bright yellow.
Surely it is cars which are the bigger danger. So why should cars be allowed to go above a speed limit?

 

[classic33]

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/netherlands-to-close-e-bike-speed-modification-loophole-5261

Whilst I much agree with this, the 'people should not be able to avoid a fine simply because they are alert to police presence' is perplexing.
Here, it is mandatory to warn about car speed cameras, thus making them bright yellow.
Surely it is cars which are the bigger danger. So why should cars be allowed to go above a speed limit?

What happens if you modify your car to the extent that it requires retesting, but you don't get it retested, to possibly place it in another more expensive class of vehicle though?
You just convince yourself that it's still the same as every other model like it and continue on. Right up until something goes wrong.

 

[Slick]

https://cfpa-e.eu/new-knowledge-about-battery-fires-in-electric-cars-on-ferries/

According to studies from both Denmark and Norway, there is actually less risk of fire in electric and hybrid cars than in conventional cars. The only problem is that when it does happen, the consequences can be greater, because a fire in a lithium battery is difficult to extinguish and can flare up again long after it has been extinguished.

Obviously, I'm no expert and can only go with the perceived wisdom of others.

It does make sense to me, but it is a reasonably newish risk in certain situations.

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/do...e-at-kilwinning-fenix-battery-recycling-plant

 

[Beebo]

What happens if you modify your car to the extent that it requires retesting, but you don't get it retested, to possibly place it in another more expensive class of vehicle though?
You just convince yourself that it's still the same as every other model like it and continue on. Right up until something goes wrong.

The MOT would hopefully pick that stuff up.
But in reality an MOT is only good on the day of the test.
I suspect you would invalidate your insurance policy. And be looking at fines and possibly jail if you killed somebody.

 

[Alex321]

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/netherlands-to-close-e-bike-speed-modification-loophole-5261

Whilst I much agree with this, the 'people should not be able to avoid a fine simply because they are alert to police presence' is perplexing.
Here, it is mandatory to warn about car speed cameras, thus making them bright yellow.
Surely it is cars which are the bigger danger. So why should cars be allowed to go above a speed limit?

The reasoning behind that is that the intent of the cameras is to slow people down in dangerous spots. This is also why they insist on calling them "safety cameras" rather than speed cameras.

They would rather 100 people slow down for every one they catch, than catch 90 of them.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

The point I was answering is the expectation that legal bikes be allowed on trains, but not illegal ones, and I'm not sure whether you're agreeing with me or disagreeing.

At the time of boarding, the only arbiter of what's allowed on and what isn't will be the Guard, and he isn't in a position to tell whether or not the motor cuts out when the rider stops pedalling. I don't think he'll take kindly to his employers expecting him to do so, either.

I was asking how the Guard can tell if it is legal or illegal
he has no expertise on which to tell unless it is bloomin obvious
but if one catches fire and it turns out to be illegal - who will they blame??

That was the only point - I agree that it is the Guard (Train Manager???) that has to decide - I just don;t think they have the ability to do so

 

[classic33]

I was asking how the Guard can tell if it is legal or illegal
he has no expertise on which to tell unless it is bloomin obvious
but if one catches fire and it turns out to be illegal - who will they blame??

That was the only point - I agree that it is the Guard (Train Manager???) that has to decide - I just don;t think they have the ability to do so

That last part is why I said they'd ban legal e-assist bikes as well. Just to be sure.

The other way is for the two bike limit be enforced more than it is now. Possibly with pre-booking a requirement.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

That last part is why I said they'd ban legal e-assist bikes as well. Just to be sure.

The other way is for the two bike limit be enforced more than it is now. Possibly with pre-booking a requirement.

Yes - banning all ebikes including legal ones is what I was trying to say was the effect of it being the guard's responsibility

2 bike limit is fine as long as booking are honoured
but I have heard all sorts of stories about getting there and finding the bike area full of luggage and being kicked off the train

basically it is a bit of a dog's dinner
and every new train design that comes out seems to be designed to make it worse!

 

[classic33]

Yes - banning all ebikes including legal ones is what I was trying to say was the effect of it being the guard's responsibility

2 bike limit is fine as long as booking are honoured
but I have heard all sorts of stories about getting there and finding the bike area full of luggage and being kicked off the train

basically it is a bit of a dog's dinner
and every new train design that comes out seems to be designed to make it worse!

But if it's the decision between bikes that have been booked on or luggage, I can see the luggage being shifted.
Guard would be the one that'd carry the can for refusing, and I can't see them being happy with that.

 

[presta]

I was asking how the Guard can tell if it is legal or illegal
he has no expertise on which to tell unless it is bloomin obvious
but if one catches fire and it turns out to be illegal - who will they blame??

That was the only point - I agree that it is the Guard (Train Manager???) that has to decide - I just don;t think they have the ability to do so

That's the point I was making:

The Guard's not going to be able to tell the difference, and probably won't want the responsibility of deciding either.

At the time of boarding, the only arbiter of what's allowed on and what isn't will be the Guard, and he isn't in a position to tell whether or not the motor cuts out when the rider stops pedalling. I don't think he'll take kindly to his employers expecting him to do so, either.