The rugby

[Dogtrousers]

They aren't getting away with them. They will not be able to return in that game, and will normally face a ban (length depending on the severity of the offence) as well.

It just doesn't hurt the team quite as much as a red card early in the game currently does.

Hmmm. Part of the punishment is for the team. I'm not sure I'm happy with watering that down in the name of entertainment.

If Steward had committed an unambiguously red offence, kicked Sexton up the arse and poked the ref in the eye or something, then, even as an England supporter I think it would be a bit off that England could bring on a fresh sub after 20.

 

[Alex321]

Hmmm. Part of the punishment is for the team. I'm not sure I'm happy with watering that down in the name of entertainment.

If Steward had committed an unambiguously red offence, kicked Sexton up the arse and poked the ref in the eye or something, then, even as an England supporter I think it would be a bit off that England could bring on a fresh sub after 20.

The team are still punished with being down a player for twice the time of a yellow card. And I don't think it is being done in the name of entertainment, it is being done more in the name of fairness.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The team are still punished with being down a player for twice the time of a yellow card. And I don't think it is being done in the name of entertainment, it is being done more in the name of fairness.

Hmmm. We'll just have to differ on that one. I'm not convinced that the red card as it stands is at all unfair or broken and in need of mending.

You don't want to go three points down? Don't field dumb players who give away penalties.
You don't want to down to 14 men? Don't field dumb players who get sent off.

 

[Alex321]

Hmmm. We'll just have to differ on that one. I'm not convinced that the red card as it stands is at all unfair or broken and in need of mending.

I understand your viewpoint. And if red cards were only for deliberate foul pay, I would tend to agree.

You don't want to go three points down? Don't field dumb players who give away penalties.
You don't want to down to 14 men? Don't field dumb players who get sent off.

Neither of those are possible.

Many of the penalties nowadays are given for situations where the player had zero chance of avoiding it.

And some of the red cards are for instantaneous things where the player had no thinking time at all, and are not the result of doing something "dumb", including the one that sparked this discussion (even if it was later rescinded).

 

[HobbesOnTour]

This is interesting......

And some of the red cards are for instantaneous things where the player had no thinking time at all, and are not the result of doing something "dumb", including the one that sparked this discussion (even if it was later rescinded).

I've seen the argument made that what is needed is a sea-change in attitudes in rugby to minimise the risk of head injuries and that the Steward example is a case in point.
It's not the split seconds before impact that are the problem but the seconds before those. Something specifically for players in those positions who may be running onto a contested loose ball from a distance at pace, notably full backs and wingers.

I'm not sure about such an argument but writing the event off as something that couldn't be helped or describing it as a part of the game is something that is going to ultimately damage and possibly kill off the game. (never mind the players). Not today. But someday.
Things need to be tried, tested, tweaked and World Rugby is doing that. It's not a perfect process.

As for the bolded part, Peyper told Steward on the day that he turned into Keenan, something fairly clear on the replays so there was time to turn, even if only enough time to do it by instinct rather than thought.
Rugby players will need to "train out" that type of instinct.

 

[Dogtrousers]

There was something about Steward's pose that reminded me of me when I was playing rugby at school, cringing and trying to minimise the pain of the impact when one of the big athletic kids ran at/through me. I never got sent off for that. I did, however, frequently get sent to run laps of the pitch for pratting around and not taking things seriously.

All of which makes me think that the sin bin period should be upgraded to running laps and maybe the offending player should be given detention. That'll learn em.

 

[Alex321]

This is interesting......


I've seen the argument made that what is needed is a sea-change in attitudes in rugby to minimise the risk of head injuries and that the Steward example is a case in point.
It's not the split seconds before impact that are the problem but the seconds before those. Something specifically for players in those positions who may be running onto a contested loose ball from a distance at pace, notably full backs and wingers.

I'm not sure about such an argument but writing the event off as something that couldn't be helped or describing it as a part of the game is something that is going to ultimately damage and possibly kill off the game. (never mind the players). Not today. But someday.
Things need to be tried, tested, tweaked and World Rugby is doing that. It's not a perfect process.

As for the bolded part, Peyper told Steward on the day that he turned into Keenan, something fairly clear on the replays so there was time to turn, even if only enough time to do it by instinct rather than thought.
Rugby players will need to "train out" that type of instinct.

They will.

Five year ago, they wouldn't even have been considering a card for that one, and even now the panel decided afterwards it shouldn only have been yellow.

I'm quite Ok with that type of incident being a card, and agree that they need to train in the "instinct" to avoid those sort of situations. But I'm also Ok with the idea being trialled, that a sent off player can be replaced after 20 minutes. That is still a high level of punishment for the player involved, and being a man down for 20 minutes is still quite a high level for the team.

It might also make referees less reluctant to give red cards.

 

[Dogtrousers]

All this brings to mind a story told to me by a friend. He wasn't keen on rugby but being a big lad he played sometimes for his school first XV, which was a traditional grammar school. He became the first boy to be sent off for the school team in oodles of years and had to explain himself to the headmaster for bringing shame on the school. It was a dreadful miscarriage of justice but there was no disciplinary committee to exhonorate him.

And what did you do to be sent off, boy?
I made noises sir.
What kind of noises?
Fart noises sir, in the scrum.

 

[Drago]

I got sent playing for our 6th form team off because a box of non safety matches in my back pocket ignited in the scrum. Couldn't get my shorts off quicly enough, and as the ref didn't realise the reason for my sudden semi-naturism I got sent off in shame while my shorts shouldered. Even worse, I had to ask a teacher for a light! (Thanks Mr Riches!)

 

[T4tomo]

I had a mate who got sent off. He didn't agree with refs decision, the subsequent conversation with the ref went something like this...

"Sir can I be penalised for thinking something"
"no"
"In that case I think your a cheating daffodil"
"off you go"

 

[matticus]

All of which makes me think that the sin bin period should be upgraded to running laps and maybe the offending player should be given detention. That'll learn em.

This would definitely improve the entertainment value of matches (and the revenue - think of the rotten fruit sales!)
But would also lead to moaning from the forwards about how much less time it takes the wingers to serve their penalty.

 

[Chromatic]

Excellent result, I'm glad La Rochelle won.

 

[Chap sur le velo]

It was a great game. Amazing rugby from both sides.

The right team won. With that amount of possession the real surprise is how close it was at the finish.

 

[AndyRM]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66074883

Not so sure this is needed. Essentially another World Cup. Considering three English clubs have gone to the wall recently, and the Irish regions are in big trouble too, how does this tournament help anyone?

 

[Dogtrousers]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/66074883

Not so sure this is needed. Essentially another World Cup. Considering three English clubs have gone to the wall recently, and the Irish regions are in big trouble too, how does this tournament help anyone?

Indeed, more concentration of money at the top. May also kill, or at least injure, the goose that lays the golden eggs by diluting the appeal of the RWC