The ultimate touring bike?

[Mike Ayling]

First of all, it appears like you're shouting.
I have read the book and I am aware that the whole bike was given to him gratis.
Does the fact that he got loads of support on the road not emphasise the fact that he needed loads of support on the road?


I read his blog pretty much live, I think a lot of it is gone now because there's a book out or on the way.
If I recall correctly, he was riding a Koga World Traveller, they're built to order, and are designed for Rohloffs. This wasn't a retrobuild.
If I recall the issue correctly, Rohloff had tweaked something, Koga hadn't accommodated that in the design and the use of a belt rather than a chain exacerbated the problem.
It's quite a bold statement to make that x brand would never have that problem. I believe (it's been a few years) there was some infighting between Rohloff & Koga at the time as to where the responsibility lay.



For the record, I have nothing against Rohloff hubs. As I said upthread, everyone has different motivations. I don't believe it's constructive to question people's motivations, but if I have a bit of pertinent info I like to throw it in the pot. The point stands: Rohloffs are pretty bullet-proof until they're not. When they're not there's a whole level of complexity and logistics involved to get them going again.
Happy Rohloff Riding!

I think that the convention (which I personally believe is a load of carp) is that TYPING IN CAPITAL LETTERS is considered to be shouting. I used a large font in bold to emphasise the point I was trying to make.

IMNSHO Koga might have missed the memo about the upgrade from Rohloff or decided that is was not a real issue to respond to. Not everyone likes everyone else in the EU and I imagine that the Dutch have little time for those pesky Germans who invaded them during the war.

Re belt drive there is a journal on CycleBlaze by a Canadian couple who bought their Tout Terrain bikes from the American agent. One of the the bikes was experiencing excessive wear of the belt and sprocket but their concerns were brushed off by the American agent. Anyway they started their tour in Europe and went to TT HQ in Germany who diagnosed an incorrect belt line and replaced the belt and sprocket and straightened the belt line and all was well thereafter.

 

[Pale Rider]

Stephen Peel of this parish abandoned his tour in France due to Rohloff/frame incompatibility;

That was a strange one.

I recall asking Peel a couple of questions at the time to try to establish what his problem was, but he never answered.

One thing is for sure - his Rohloff hub never failed.

Someone might have bodged the belt fitting, but that's not a fault with the hub.

Belts and Rohloff is an interesting one.

Rohloff still do not offer any belt sprockets or associated hardware.

Rohloff do link to the belt maker Gates on their 'third party tuning' page, but there's lots of warnings about needing a frame with a stiff enough rear triangle.

https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/tuning-parts

 

[HobbesOnTour]

IMNSHO Koga might have missed the memo about the upgrade from Rohloff or decided that is was not a real issue to respond to. Not everyone likes everyone else in the EU and I imagine that the Dutch have little time for those pesky Germans who invaded them during the war.

The Dutch don't like the Germans because of the war and that lead to a dodgy Rohloff/Koga marriage???
That's the quality of your position?
I'm out.

Cycleblaze is a crap site with murky beginnings, no search function worth talking about and a dead forum. All style over substance

 

[HobbesOnTour]

One thing is for sure - his Rohloff hub never failed.

I've nothing against Rohloff but the guy got stranded in France and had to go back home to the UK, get the issue fixed and restart. The hub may not have failed, but something went wrong and as much as I dislike the word "failure" I'd hardly call it a success.
He made it to Asia with no further problems as far as I can tell.

It just reinforces the problem with something like SON, Rohloff etc. - when something goes wrong getting it fixed is really not very compatible with touring.

 

[matticus]

I don't know about the Rohloff issues, but if your SON hub fails (e.g. when you are 50,000km into your round-the-world ride ;-) ) can't you just bung in another standard front wheel? Annoying, but not trip-ending.

p.s. is this debate turning into the new H*lmet War??

 

[Blue Hills]

Can someone educate me on this 50,000km thing on the SON? What's the status of that? Is it some sort of guarantee?

 

[Blue Hills]

Does the fact that he got loads of support on the road not emphasise the fact that he needed loads of support on the road?

This is the sort of laservision concentration that convinces me that you will be able to cope with anything you encounter on the road hobbes.

 

[faster]

It's all very well saying that the hub won't fail - what if the wheel fails?

I had a rear rim fail on tour far away from any shops and was quickly able to source another wheel off a dumped/old bike for £20. I was soon back on the road, and with a good selection of gears at that.

I wonder how many doors I'd have to knock on before someone answered who had a spare Rohloff wheel they were willing to let go?

 

[Blue Hills]

It's all very well saying that the hub won't fail - what if the wheel fails?

I had a rear rim fail on tour far away from any shops and was quickly able to source another wheel off a dumped/old bike for £20. I was soon back on the road, and with a good selection of gears at that.

I wonder how many doors I'd have to knock on before someone answered who had a spare Rohloff wheel they were willing to let go?

Interesting point - you could of course replace spokes/get a wheel with a rohloff rebuilt/rerimmed but these, particularly the latter two, could get somewhat complicated depending on where you were.
On grabbing wheels, I recently but pre covid acquired a bike for £21 (yes really) and the front wheel that came with it is now running really nicely on another bike of mine.

 

[matticus]

Can someone educate me on this 50,000km thing on the SON? What's the status of that? Is it some sort of guarantee?

Dunno. I don't own one, and it was someone else that first invoked it on this thread.

(but most modern decent front-hubs should get you round the world. At worst you might want to squirt some clean grease in every now and then. And like i said, if one *does* fail, it's not trip-ending.)

 

[HobbesOnTour]

On the 50,000 km thing (I think that was me) I was sure I read it on the SON website, but a quick look now tells me they use "lifetime" and "several tens of thousands of km".
It was something discussed with SJS (where I bought the hub) at the time and more recently after the drain incident. The local agent also asked me how many kms it had done. I reckoned 20-30k km and each response was that was insignificant.

@matticus is bang on that you can just bung in another wheel and off you go. (That's what I did). In fact, it's a lot easier to do with a front dynamo than a rear Rohloff.

@faster is bang on too and depending on where you're going to tour the availability of parts can be very important, vital even.

My bike, from the frame down was planned on being replacable. It's a mid/late 90s MTB frame, 26 inch wheels, front & rear rack with an Extrawheel trailer (a donor front wheel and spare rim for the rear).
It's got a triple, 7 speed drivetrain (and with the exception of the US) chains, cassettes etc. are everywhere and cheap. Tyres are available, although quality is iffy.
Worst case scenario and I have frame issues just about everything can be transferred over to a new frame, and those types of frames are everywhere.

I like simplicity and I like redundancy. I also prefer to spend my hard earned on experiences not things. I love touring and think that everyone should give it a try. For me, touring means me getting to places and in situations that I'd never thought about. The fact is that we never know what will happen so it's better to be prepared for the unexpected.

I splashed out a large (for me) amount a money a few years ago on a tent. Everything was analysed and weighed up. Literature consumed, videos studied.
I never thought a couple of cats might like to play on it!

One thing to remember in all of this discussion about ultimate bikes, hubs etc. is that a lot of the information we see is actually sponsored. People receiving free bikes, gear etc. or just simply trying to drive up visits to their sites. Spoonfuls of salt and a dollop of common sense can go a long way.

 

[Blue Hills]

I'm sure they are an excellent company, but I am finding their stated position on the bearings confusing, unless it is just meant to deter chancers.
Their web site seems to say they are "lifetime lubricated" yet the 5 year guarantee (for a quick look says that's what it is) says it doesn't cover "wear and tear".

They also say this under the FAQs.

@@
How much play may the bearings have?
New grooved ball bearings have about zero play. During longterm-use the play may increase within a few hundreths of a millimeter. At the rim you may feel a small movement to the right and to the left then. Even when you continue cycling with a lot of bearing play no damage will occur.

@@

I thought if you got that play at the rim on a conventional ball bearing hub you should be adjusting it pronto, and very probably taking a look inside.

And post bearing servicing, that you should aim to have a tiny bit of play when outside the forks which disappears on tightening the wheel with the skewer in the forks - ie that you should very definitely not go riding a wheel with play. And they say "a lot of bearing play" is fine and dandy. Is there something very very special about their hubs and bearings?

I appreciate that they are a decent company as evidenced by replacing @HobbesOnTour 's hub even thiough the guarantee quite naturally doesn't include accidents.

But I remain a tad confused.

 

[Mike Ayling]

The Dutch don't like the Germans because of the war and that lead to a dodgy Rohloff/Koga marriage???
That's the quality of your position?
I'm out.

that's my opinion which you do not have to agree with.

Cycleblaze is a site with murky beginnings, no search function worth talking

about and a dead forum.

All valid points but at least it is not run by a Crazy Guy.

Cycling Forums are not what they were ten or twenty years ago. Cycle Chat is still quite active, Cycling UK not as much and even the traffic at Crazy Guy is well down on previous years, which Gunton freely admits.
I suspect that the reason that the CycleBlaze forum has not taken off is due to the fact that many of the members there have been bruised by encounters with Gunton before they left.
Gunton had a go at another poster quite recently.

 

[Notafettler]

This Tout Terrain Silk Road must be close to the ultimate in flat bar tourers.

Clever features include a custom rack for Ortlieb panniers, a steering lock to prevent the loaded bike flopping over on the stand, and dropouts which include the dynamo connection.

USB charging with a back up battery in the head tube should keep your gadgets fired up, and the reviewer reckons it has the stiffest wheels available, and a super stiff frame for carrying heavy loads.

What he doesn't say is the weight, which I reckon must be a lot even for a steel tourer

Very nice. Only fault is the maximum tyre size.
Steering lock is unnecessarily complicated. The one on my Santos is much less complicated.
Always uncertain about disc brakes. They have massive advantages over rim But if you ping them you end up with a locked wheel. Something I didn't appreciate.
I will be putting a search on ebay for second hand one......you never know!

 

[Notafettler]

2890€ very god value.....oops from!