prestonhere
Guru
- Location
- preston lancashire
Wd 40 only used it for last 60 year or so, works for me clean with it then veryshort spray pre ride, when bike needs clean (3 year ish fit new chain. Will not be as often now at 73 milage is a lot lower
THIS grinds my gears......
- Thread starter sevenfourate
- Start date
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Wd 40 only used it for last 60 year or so, works for me clean with it then veryshort spray pre ride, when bike needs clean (3 year ish fit new chain. Will not be as often now at 73 milage is a lot lower
Mike Ayling
Guru
- Location
- Melbourne Downunda
An excellent choice!
OP
OP
sevenfourate
Devotee of OCD
- Location
- Lowestoft, Suffolk
New chain on after a meticulous clean up:
And if the fact the new Lube has been designed with a textured / high grip label; to make it tactile in use is anything to go by; and indicate the amount of thought that’s gone into it - I’m excited 👍
And if the fact the new Lube has been designed with a textured / high grip label; to make it tactile in use is anything to go by; and indicate the amount of thought that’s gone into it - I’m excited 👍
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
The inexact anwer is that the old chain is elongated (chains don't "stretch") by <0.55% (8mm longer divided by length of a 57 (one inch) link chain). You have changed it before it has adversely affected the cassette's ability to synch with a new chain.
What is the difference between elongated and stretched. This is a genuine question as I’m puzzled why chains get longer.
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
Stretching implies the links actually get longer, which is not the case.
What actually happens is that the rollers wear, meaning there are gaps between the rollers and the holes in the links. This has the effect of making a chain pulled tight appear longer (elongation) even though it has not stretched.
Tom B
Guru
- Location
- Lancashire
That's why I use 'em.
I am someone who uses the bike daily, come rain or shine, snow or ice.
Since joining CC some years ago i have become an advokate and user of the Mickle Method
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/mickle-method.242115/
Usually once a week I'll wipe the chain down with an oily rag, with varying degrees of thoroughness.. If I am feeling thorough I'll give it a squirt of GT85 and another wipe, or slosh some brake cleaner on the oily rag.
I'll then splodge on some Weldtite wetlube (the one with the purple nozzle)
That usually keeps it sweet. If the weather has been particularly vile or wet, i'll spray the chain with GT85 usually by holding the nozzle in the gap between the jockey wheels and turning the chain backwards to drive out the water, if there has been lots of salt, or the chain has that browny grey sludgey look I'll then perhaps give it a more thorough degreasing.
In general as the weather turns really grim ill just not worry about it, close my ears, and replace the chain & cassette at easter. I'll save part worn cassettes for winter use.
My issue is freehubs and cup and cone bearings. I've just started using XHP222 grease hoping for an improvement - it certainly smells more business like than the red stuff from weldtite.
Stretching the topic I was watching some videos from a car repairer where they was chaining timing chains on cars, they demonstrated the tensioner extended and the slack and slap on the guides, but i found it quite surprising how little longer the chain appeared when hung from a screwdriver alongside the new.
(10 points if you know the video/ youtuber and or engine)
- grease (=viscosity high) is for static applications like mounts/fixings, to prevent potential harmful aliens invading. If it gets moved to another location, it won't return, and the function is lost.
- oil (=viscosity low) is for dynamic applications like drivetrains, to reduce friction by being a fluid that doesn't change in volume when pressed. If it gets moved to another location, it can return due to external forces (other than the one the drivetrain transmits), such as gravity, centrifugal/centripetal, medium resistances, and so on.
grease on a drivetrain part in use is thus contradictional - it's a temporary story, with the period a function of the viscosity of the greases components, what was observed in this topic.
If original color changes (grey to black), and no external origin, it's just dirt from inside the chains link parts, that the cleaning missed (ex just a wipe off externals), that got pushed out to stick in the grease, and by the way, if those particles sat at the inside of rollers, they will have masked (=compensated for) wears influence on chain length under tension.
That's why a thorough clean (immersion, ultrasonic vibrator), or a ride through a downpour, can suddenly cause the chain to become longer, as seen by derailer position or chain hanging more - requiring retension.
As already mentioned, it isn't "stretching", it's just material sitting in the length direction, that got grinded off and ended out of the length direction (including on the road or in grandma's daisies).
Any pitch increase will cause the rollers to "machine" the sprocket teeth, if these aren't yet "machined", towards the increased pitch, because the chain has design, material and numerical superiority over the sprockets.
So, at Fubar, the sprockets will have been machined towards accomodating Fubar, and a new chain on them will "restart" the pitch growth, and thus prevent further machining on the sprockets (or more accurate: reduce it to a fraction of what it was).
There is also a completely other factor: rust due to rain or condensation. Water is more fluid = low viscous, than grease, so grease doesn't keep water out. Oil can, but has abit lower density than water, so gravity can "move" it to a, for lubrication, wrong position, and water, for rust, bad position.
Soooo, to judge whether or not a chain can continue serve its job, don't look at the chain, look at the sprockets teeth, and judge whether or not chain replacement is needed to avoid failure of sprockets function.
How to know that failure point: test it, and when found, keep it as an example for the future.
- oil (=viscosity low) is for dynamic applications like drivetrains, to reduce friction by being a fluid that doesn't change in volume when pressed. If it gets moved to another location, it can return due to external forces (other than the one the drivetrain transmits), such as gravity, centrifugal/centripetal, medium resistances, and so on.
grease on a drivetrain part in use is thus contradictional - it's a temporary story, with the period a function of the viscosity of the greases components, what was observed in this topic.
If original color changes (grey to black), and no external origin, it's just dirt from inside the chains link parts, that the cleaning missed (ex just a wipe off externals), that got pushed out to stick in the grease, and by the way, if those particles sat at the inside of rollers, they will have masked (=compensated for) wears influence on chain length under tension.
That's why a thorough clean (immersion, ultrasonic vibrator), or a ride through a downpour, can suddenly cause the chain to become longer, as seen by derailer position or chain hanging more - requiring retension.
As already mentioned, it isn't "stretching", it's just material sitting in the length direction, that got grinded off and ended out of the length direction (including on the road or in grandma's daisies).
Any pitch increase will cause the rollers to "machine" the sprocket teeth, if these aren't yet "machined", towards the increased pitch, because the chain has design, material and numerical superiority over the sprockets.
So, at Fubar, the sprockets will have been machined towards accomodating Fubar, and a new chain on them will "restart" the pitch growth, and thus prevent further machining on the sprockets (or more accurate: reduce it to a fraction of what it was).
There is also a completely other factor: rust due to rain or condensation. Water is more fluid = low viscous, than grease, so grease doesn't keep water out. Oil can, but has abit lower density than water, so gravity can "move" it to a, for lubrication, wrong position, and water, for rust, bad position.
Soooo, to judge whether or not a chain can continue serve its job, don't look at the chain, look at the sprockets teeth, and judge whether or not chain replacement is needed to avoid failure of sprockets function.
How to know that failure point: test it, and when found, keep it as an example for the future.
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It isn't roller wear that causes chain elongation it is wear at the interface between the pins and the inner sideplates.
OP
OP
sevenfourate
Devotee of OCD
- Location
- Lowestoft, Suffolk
Yes. I’d never really studied bicycle chain wear before.
But on removing the afflicted chain this time; I held a joint and tried to induce movement in the direction of drive. Not only could I feel this wear at every single pin / plate joint……you could hear it; and could well imagine how that could sound or be amplified in use.
And I’m also sure if I’d have held the worn chain taught - the elongation would have shown up as noticeably longer than I pictured…..
matticus
Guru
It doesn't matter, the effect (on your drive train) is the same.
Ignore anyone that claims otherwise, for they are foolish and will lead you astray!
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
This is b****x. An individual from this planet cannot "look at the sprocket teeth" of a cassette which was new 2000km ago and tell whether a new chain will operate satisfactorily.
Measuring the chain, by whatever reliable means (I use a metal 60cm rule and the chain must be under gentle tension - I achieve this by measuring along the top section with a small force applied to the crank), can tell you it's %elongation (with simpler maths) and take your pick on 0.5 or 0.75 as the limit.
Inner sideplates wear little: the pins wear more (see images below). Relja is pretty good. https://bike.bikegremlin.com/3306/bicycle-chain-wear-elongation/
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