David K is Angela Lee AICMFP
This is a helmet debate
- Thread starter david k
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David K is Angela Lee AICMFP
thecryof
New Member
- Location
- Mechelen, Belgium
We're on two wheels and going fast, objects about and most of the time a very hard ground. I think it's crazy to not wear a helmet.
OP
OP
david k
Hi
- Location
- North West
Good morning everyone, thanks for the replies
I dont have the time to respond to every point, much of them are the same point as before anyway, nothing new really.
"Just trying to stop you proselytising them." read the posts again, you seem annoyed at other people not me, but for some reason feel compelled to create large posts in opposition to me wearing a helmet?
So you cannot drive a car without seeing evidence it has been designed, has safety features, fully tested, reviewed, evaluated etc etc, or do you believe your own instinct that it is safe to drive?
Do you stand at the door in the morning worried about leaving the house unless theres evidence you will not get injury? You dont have the courage of our own knowledge to make a decision? I do, as I said before I have had experience from my own son, pretty good evidence for me, i dont need anymore. Really though, if you need so much research before putting on or taking off an helmet your lives must be difficult, how do you ever make a decision on anything?
Sad that you take this approach to 'advice' and 'information'. Its not bloody minded to maintain your own view if thats what you believe in, it is when you get uptight that you cannot force your view on somebody else.
Ive read your posts, read em again and again, heard your views, read your comments etc etc. My view is the same, you dont like my view, but dont let yourselves down by becoming insulting because you cannot force your opinion on me. Those I'm talking about know who you are.
Anyone can go back and read all my posts and make their own minds up to my position, I cannot continue to respond to the same points, Ill simply repeat myself for another 18 pages!!!!!!!! Many of the posts suggest Im saying something Im not. It wouldnt make good reading if we all did that, dont like the question, change it and respond to something else instead.
My view is the same as before, feel free to create other posts with the same points but I wont reply unless theres something new
Mark_Robson
Senior Member
- Location
- West Boldon Tyne & Wear
Opinion or fact? If it is fact then please link me to the reports that conclude that there is no safety benefit from wearing a helmet.
Why do people feel the need to be so patronising just because David's opinion differs to theirs? It smacks of desperation and insecurity.
It's really easy to cherry pick evidence to support your argument and disregard any evidence that doesn't but even the most ardent non helmet wearer surely can't agree that helmets "have no safety value"?
And you think that the pro helmet brigade are deluded?
Smokin Joe
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
You need to provide statistical evidence to show that helmet use has decreased the number of serious and fatal head injuries since their introduction. In the one field where statisitcs are readily to hand (professional racing) it shows no decrease whatsoever, in fact the logical conclusion would be that helmets are a solution to a problem that didn't exist.
Wear one if you want, no one will try to stop you but please stop telling those of us who don't that we must be crazy to leave home without one.
Mark_Robson
Senior Member
- Location
- West Boldon Tyne & Wear
Professional racers do not make up the majority of cyclists and professional racing does not make up the majority of cycling journeys. So that IMO is another example of cherry picking statistics.
And I have never accused anyone of being crazy for leaving home without one. There are occasions when I don't wear one, what I object to is being told that I'm deluded for wearing one.
I understand that helmets have limitations but I don't understand the mentality of some people who refuse to accept that helmets offer a level of protection in the event of an impact and then try to tell me that I'm a fool for believing that can and do offer protection.
OP
OP
david k
Hi
- Location
- North West
Good morning Mark, well put.
To sum up their wisdom, helmet wearers think the Earth is flat
To sum up their wisdom, helmet wearers think the Earth is flat
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
Smokin Joe
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
It isn't cherry picking at all. Pro racers ride umpteen times more miles than the average cyclist and crash far more often - any pro who hits the ground less than ten times in a season is a rarity - and they have the type of accidents for which helmets are designed to protect. My own experiences in amateur racing and club cycling are the same, seen plenty of crashes, been involved in a few myself but no issues with head injuries. If you have examples of types of riding where the number of head injuries have decreased because of helmets please feel free to tell us, no one else has ever found them.
No one accuses you of being deluded for wearing one, wear what you want, it doesn't effect anyone else. And read back through any helmet thread, you will find plenty of people accusing non helmet wearers of being mad, one a few posts before yours.
Not disagreeing with you, but of more immediate relevance is that this entire thread is subtitled "Why do pros wear helmets". To dismiss any post that attempts to answer that question as "cherry picking" is to miss the point of the thread completely...
Plenty out there but here are a couple.
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all?content=10.1080/15389580590931590
"Rodgers GB. Reducing Bicycle Accidents: A Reevaluation of the Impacts of the CPSC Bicycle Standard and Helmet Use. Journal of Products Liability, 1988,11:307-317."
Opinion or fact? If it is fact then please link me to the reports that conclude that there is a safety benefit from wearing a helmet.
Good morning Mark, well put.
To sum up their wisdom, helmet wearers think the Earth is flat
No, people that proselytise helmet wearing based only on their personal beliefs while dismissing the scientific literature as irrelevant are like flat earthers and creationists.
Mark_Robson
Senior Member
- Location
- West Boldon Tyne & Wear
I promised myself that I wouldn't get into this debate again as it's pointless, but I failed.
Now I'm going to make that same promise to myself again............. So
How about answering the point about helmet specifications and testing against what you are expecting them to do?
There is a whole regulatory and legal system in place to deal with that. Mainly because people kept making their personal judgements and getting it wrong resulting in death and injury.
There are lots of things people have done based on personal experience and then changed their views when the evidence has shown it to be misplaced. Smoking is a good example although there is still a hard core of people who assert smoking does not cause cancer and is good for you.
I use to wear a helmet on the assumption basis but then started to look into the research and stopped wearing one as a result. The fact that I can't know everything should not prevent me responding when I do. My diet is quite different to what it used to be, my exercise regime is too, I don't smoke and I don't wear a helmet. All based on research evidence. I am sure there are many other things I do that are not achieving what I think they are.
Your attitude seems to be that since you can't evaluate everything there is no need to evaluate anything.
I'm sure the tobacco lobby are the same about their belief that smoking is healthy.
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