This is a helmet debate

[Baker]

I don't think your comparison is valid at all, you seem to see cycling as a sport whereas many of us see it simply as a mode of transport with no competitive element whatsoever.

Nope, I see them both as physical activities that mean different things to different people at different times

Sometimes my bike is just the best way to go and pick up the sunday papers, other times its is full on work-out.

Some people ( often in European resorts more than N.America admittedly) simply view skiing as a convenient way to get from one bar to another.

Another thing is for sure, very few skiers and even less snowboarder view what they are doing as competitive.

My observation was centred on the different attitude (and strength of feeling) between the cycling community and the snow sports community, which I thought was interesting

Exactly, you'd need to compare cycling with something like cross country skiing to get a more reasonable comparison. In the same way that the different forms of cycling can be viewed, I would wear a cycle helmet for MTBing but not for commuting, going to the shops, social riding, etc. I suspect I'd wear a helmet for snowboarding but that I'm also unlikely ever to snowboard to work or the shops.

I doubt you have any experience of the average person cross country skiing then - they are, in the most part, incredible slow.


My other observation is that the constant niggling, some times self righteous lecturing of the pro-helmet crowd is exactly the wrong approach to achieve the outcome they want. I can't see any strong-willed individual who does not want to wear a helmet changing their mind because some-one made a 'knock-out' comment on an internet forum. Most parents will know the direct approach is a disaster with kids .... the best tactic is to ask them to do the opposite.

So if you really don't want to start wearing a helmet be very suspicious of people who suggest you shouldn't

Off now to do 20 miles, have a good day everyone.

PS For those of you who think that helmet wearing is a marketing ploy by the brands, you are giving them way more credit than they deserve - My Missus worked at senior level in the sports brand world for a while, I can assure you that the level of marketing sophistication definitely lacks that level of strategy. Pretty much all of the big companies are now listed - so the only focus is sell more in the next quarter. Sad but true. If you want to ruin a good brand then take it public or let the VC crowd get there hands on it. Remember just my personal opinion. Others have the right to dis-agree

 

[snailracer]

...
Given the recent pro that died, was it from banhing his head? Did the helmet help?
...

From BBC news:
"He died from a fracture to the front of his skull..."

 

[Benthedoon]

I have only recently started wearing a helmet, I made the decision after seeing a few nasty accidents involving cyclists being hit by cars (cyclists were all wearing high viz and had lights etc. ) a couple of these accidents had that lovely, near black, puddle around the head but no visible helmet. As a dad of many kids I thought I should do what I can to try and reduce the possibility of cranial fractures in the event of an accident, which a helmet does do, however, pro-helmeters seem to be under the impression that wearing one prevents all head injury which is a ridiculous stand to take as brain injuries are internal and quite often nastier than external head injuries.
It's the everlasting debate, like the earphones while riding debate, pro's - con's blah blah blah.

 

[thecryof]

I like wearing a helmet, upcoming fast objects would really hurt otherwise. ie: branches, bugs.. Aerodynamics also benefits.

 

[The Jayler]

From BBC news:
"He died from a fracture to the front of his skull..."

No then.

 

[ufkacbln]

No then.

There was no direct comparison between driving and cycling.


The question was why when the UCI says racing cyclists should wear helmets we should take their advice and filter this down to leisure cycling, yet when the RAC/ ACU does the same thing then filtering down to leisure drivers is somehow unaccpetable.


The question is why we should listen to one professional racing body but not the other - totally irrational

 

[thelawnet]

My bike has disc brakes, fat tyres and an upright riding position, it's also six feet long, bright orange, and has £200 worth of lights on it. I think it's objectively very safe.

I see people out with inadequate braking power, fixed gear bikes (more dangerous), poor road visibility due to dropped handlebars, TT brakes (dangerous!), super-thin tyres, and many other things that mean their bikes are not as safe as mine. They also ride faster than me, which is dangerous too, due to increased stopping distance.

I don't get how people can come on lecturing people about helmets when their own bikes are not as safe as they could be - they'll come off on hitting a pothole as a result of using 700x23 tyres rather than something wider and safer.


I, without helmet, am much safer than these people. Do they all just have death wishes or something?

 

[Mad at urage]

I doubt you have any experience of the average person cross country skiing then - they are, in the most part, incredible slow.

Do you have any experience of the average person cycling? They are, for the most part, incredibly slow .

 

[Dan B]

My bike has disc brakes, fat tyres and an upright riding position, it's also six feet long, bright orange, and has £200 worth of lights on it. I think it's objectively very safe.

You don't mention how many wheels it has, but I infer from your using the word "bike" not "trike" that it most likely only has two wheels and thus is inherently unstable. Surely no vehicle can be described as "objectively very safe" if it falls over sideways every time it stops

;-)

 

[yello]

Stabilisers?

 

[Midnight]

My bike has disc brakes, fat tyres and an upright riding position, it's also six feet long, bright orange, and has £200 worth of lights on it. I think it's objectively very safe.

I see people out with inadequate braking power, fixed gear bikes (more dangerous), poor road visibility due to dropped handlebars, TT brakes (dangerous!), super-thin tyres, and many other things that mean their bikes are not as safe as mine. They also ride faster than me, which is dangerous too, due to increased stopping distance.

I don't get how people can come on lecturing people about helmets when their own bikes are not as safe as they could be - they'll come off on hitting a pothole as a result of using 700x23 tyres rather than something wider and safer.


I, without helmet, am much safer than these people. Do they all just have death wishes or something?

In 30 years of cycling I've ridden all sorts of bikes, and IMO it's not the sort of bike you ride that matters, it's how you ride it and how well you maintain it that counts. I've had a number of road bikes (including the current mount) but I've never had any of the problems you've alluded to. I keep by brakes keen, whether they're disc, cantilever, caliper or v-brakes, and I've always been able to stop when I want to. Why do you think that drop bars give poor road visiblity?

The ride position on drops bars may not suit everybody, but again visibility has never been an issue for me, and I can comfortably see in any direction I wish to look. I also use 700x23's, and do occasionaly hit the odd pothole but it hasn't buckled or even damaged the (32-spoked) wheels. I've even taken my road bike down un-tarmaced dirt roads, but funnily enough the wheels didn't suddenly fold beneath me into a tangle of twisted metal. And the only time grip has been an issue was on black ice (where any vehicle will skid) - it's more about choosing good-quality tyres, and in bad weather, riding to the conditions.

Speed does need a greater stopping distance, but a good rider will anticipate the need to stop, and again good brakes and brake blocks will give good braking. Speed on a bicycle is not in itself dangerous. It's only dangerous if a cycle is in a poor condition, when applied by someone with poor bike-handling skills, in inappropriate conditons, or in the wrong place (i.e. shared cycle path or in built-up traffic).

Road bikes with drop bars have been around for almost a century - why do you think the design still lives on if they are so dangerous?

Curiously, the only 'accident' I've had was when I was SMIDSY'd at a junction, whilst riding an upright at low speed (around 10mph) in full daylight - driver admitted to careless driving. Having already been hospitalised, I know how much it hurts, and I can assure you that absoluetly no wish to repeat the experience. No deathwish here. And by the way - I'd never lecture anyone a helmet use, you pays yer money and you takes yer chance. Carry on...

 

[Paco de Bango]

Rally crews don't wear helmets on road sections.

Yes they do. Well the WRC drivers have to. It's that sort of rally driving i was referring to where the driver is going as fast as possible, not London to Brighton vintage car type rallys where they're just trying to cross the line without the engine falling out. I doubt they wear helmets for that.

 

[4F]

Yes they do. Well the WRC drivers have to. It's that sort of rally driving i was referring to where the driver is going as fast as possible, not London to Brighton vintage car type rallys where they're just trying to cross the line without the engine falling out. I doubt they wear helmets for that.

The British rally events held in the UK strictly forbid helmets to be worn on a public highway between stages.

 

[thelawnet]

In 30 years of cycling I've ridden all sorts of bikes, and IMO it's not the sort of bike you ride that matters, it's how you ride it and how well you maintain it that counts. I've had a number of road bikes (including the current mount) but I've never had any of the problems you've alluded to. I keep by brakes keen, whether they're disc, cantilever, caliper or v-brakes, and I've always been able to stop when I want to. Why do you think that drop bars give poor road visiblity?

The ride position on drops bars may not suit everybody, but again visibility has never been an issue for me, and I can comfortably see in any direction I wish to look. I also use 700x23's, and do occasionaly hit the odd pothole but it hasn't buckled or even damaged the (32-spoked) wheels. I've even taken my road bike down un-tarmaced dirt roads, but funnily enough the wheels didn't suddenly fold beneath me into a tangle of twisted metal. And the only time grip has been an issue was on black ice (where any vehicle will skid) - it's more about choosing good-quality tyres, and in bad weather, riding to the conditions.

TBH I don't have a problem with your bike choices, and I don't suppose such bikes are absolutely dangerous (although they may well be relatively more so) it was more of a rejoinder that those who say you should wear helmets but then fail to use the best quality tyres, the most powerful brakes, etc. they choose to compromise their safety, in my view, so how dare they criticise me for (in their view) compromising mine through cycling bare-headed.

I've got no way of quantifying the relative safety of riding around on my bike versus something more 'twitchy', but then since this is a helmet debate I don't need to, I can just shout at people that they are crazy, near-suicidal, for making different choices from me, on the basis of precious little.

And by the way - I'd never lecture anyone a helmet use, you pays yer money and you takes yer chance. Carry on...

Well that's good. Obviously this is a helmet debate though, so uninformed lectured are par for the course, do feel free to chip in with a study about acorns falling from trees or something like that.

 

[oldroadman]

Helmet - take your choice.Although if you check the physics, hitting any solid object at more than about 30km/hr has the possibility to turn your brain to soup, helmet or no helmet. It's about all that potential energy going kinetic inside your skull.. Helmets MAY help in a glancing blow.
So far as the "my bike is safer than yours" comment, rarely have I read such utter codswallop. There are less safe riders, and poorly looked after bikes. A well maintained bike is a safe instrument, a loony rider is not. Tyre width, upright position, makes no difference. All doen to that thing tat is an essential, skill, plus a bit of added common sense.
Me, always road bikes, only ever a helmet in races when the rules said so. My choice, as it should be.