Thorn Club Tour or Galaxy Ultra?

[Bollo]

I bought a Thorn Rohloff-equiped kiddyback last year as I didn't fancy kiddy-cranks or a tag-along. I wasn't sure how Bolletta would take to it so the 100 day money-back was appealing.

Anyways, the ability to chuck the Rolhoff up and down the gear range when stationary is very handy when you've got a nipper on the back, as out-of-the-saddle mashing from stationary is quite tricky after unexpected or tricky stops. In gears 8-14, I'd say the Rohloff is as efficient as any derailleur system I've ever ridden. Gears 1-7 do drag, although this does get noticeably smoother with a few miles on it. The dragging feels more hydraulic than mechanical, as if the oil in the hub is responsible the loss of power, though this is very subjective.

I've now got a Thorn Sport Tour as my commuter/getting-around bike. I stumped for another Rohloff as I my commute seemed to eat derailleurs and I just got tired of adjusting stuff every week. Its a little over-the-top, but I've read and had word-of-mouth reports that the Nexus can be a little fragile and I couldn't find an Alfine-equipped bike that was available sufficiently soon.

As for the leaky oil, I think this gets a mention somewhere in the vast Rohloff manual, where they refer to it as "sweat oil" . The hub looks so over-engineered that it wouldn't surprise me that it could run practically empty.

 

[Andy in Sig]

You say that the bike drags in lower gears. The lower gears are audible and this does diminish with time but I have never felt that there was any kind of drag in them. I've read reports where people complain about the grinding noise and I wonder if that sort of subliminally suggests that the gears are dragging? I suspect the only answer would be for some propers tests to be carried out.

 

[P.H]

I suspect the only answer would be for some propers tests to be carried out.

You mean like this?

The noise and feel make it easy to come to that conclusion. The facts tell a different story
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf

 

[simoncc]

Just got the CTC mag today - a super Galaxy is reviewed in it. Interesting to note that the frame is changing shape for 2008 . Not bad but I might look at the Hewitt Cheviot SE and the Ridgeback Panorama.

Whatever - it will be make your mind up time soon!

The CTC gives the price of the Super Galaxy at £1000. You can get it for £700 at Spa Cycles, whjich makes the bike a fantastic deal.

 

[Achilles]

I also note that the Ultra is in the Mag at £850 and the Spa Website lists the 2008 model ( when available - 19 Mar, Dawes tell me) at £960.

Decisions, decisons!

 

[Tim Bennet.]

The CTC review also says (in the nicest possible, indirect way), that the rear wheel of the Galaxy leaves a lot to be desired. This has certainly been my experiece touring with people riding them.

As the rear wheel is about the only part that ever fails on a touring bike, it only seems sensible to buy a bike from somewhere reknown for its wheels, rather than settle for some badly designed, machine built offering.

 

[Danny]

Though I am sure you could talk to Spa about upgrading the supplied wheels for a better pair.

 

[mcd]

Not tried a Thorn bike, but I do have a Rohloff hub.

I know a couple of people with Rohloffs and they haven't had any trouble with them, but they do drag and they are expensive so why bother?

Lots of items commonly seen on a touring bike increase drag -
> drop bars (instead of tri-bars),
> side panniers (instead of a rucksac),
> spokes (instead of a disc),
> dynamo lighting (instead of batteries)
but they all have benefits for touring that outweigh the drag.

If there was any more drag than with a derailleur system, you'd get used to it as quickly as the benefits of hub gears:
> stronger wheel (no dishing, shorter spokes),
> virtually no maintenance (no cleaning, no cable stretch),
> lower running costs (longer lasting chains, no need to replace worn out block),
> convenience of changing gear in the spot

IMO all these outweigh the extra cost of a Rohloffs for touring and commuting.

 

[simoncc]

Though I am sure you could talk to Spa about upgrading the supplied wheels for a better pair.

Why bother? I've done over 10,000 plus on my 2004 Ultra Galaxy bought for £900 in 2005 from Spa Cycles, including at least 1,000 miles on off-road towpaths, bridleways and old railway lines and many miles of heavy load carrying. My bike is battered and scruffy but the wheels are as good as new. The whole bike is superb, although I have changed the front brake to a long reach double pivot as cantilever brakes are rubbish whatever the make in my opinion. If I had to make one gripe about my Ultra Galaxy it would be about the paintwork. It bubbled and flaked off in two places at the main joints after a year of hard use, but a tin of Hammerite for a fiver fixed that.

The Super Galaxy at £700 is a steal. Why pay more?

 

[nobby]

Somebody said: "Bike fit and ride quality are very subjective"
Bike fit isn't subjective if the frame is made to fit you as per Hewitt, Mercian, and others.
If the frame is right then the ride quality will also be right.
You pay more but you get an individual item that will likely see you out, and the quality of every other component can be adjusted to suit your pocket or preference. They are relatively cheap and always replaceable.

I decided that for me frame and wheels were most important. A Cheviot SE frame (I would have liked a Mercian but it was an eight week wait, and I wouldn't) and XTR hubs, quality spokes and the same rims as Hewitt use as my starting point. As good fortune has it, I was able to afford an XTR cassette and XT everything else plus a couple of expensive locks to help keep it mine, but everything else could have been a lot cheaper without any detriment to the fit and ride.

I'm very interested in your final decision and look forward to you defending it to the death on here :0)

 

[simoncc]

I've had custom built frames in my time and I think they are overhyped. The reason I don't buy them any more, even though I can still afford to, is that I never really noticed the difference in having a frame measured for me. Unless you are very short, a giant or very unusually proportioned I can't really see the need for a custom built frame apart possibly from some ultra tough paint jobs that some makers offer. I'd go for the cheapest well-specced tourer you can get.

Bikes are like most modern consumer goods these days. You get a lot more quality for your money than you used to, and unless you go right to the bottom of the market it is hard to buy junk any more.

 

[nobby]

Looking like Mr. Average, being neither short, very tall or unusual, I'd disagree with the comment re unnecessary and overhypped.
I do get back ache.
Paul Hewitt fitted my pedals, saddle and handlebars to his jig and adjusted it for perfect fit. I'd told him about my back ache so he further adjusted to stretch my spine and take the pressure off the discs. The result is a perfect fitting frame and no back ache at all.
All mass produced frames are a size compromise that is then adjusted by stem length, handlebar position, handlebar type, seat height, seat fore and aft, crank length and anything else adjustable that I have forgotten. Their are a lot of riders who put up with various aches and pains because their bikes are adjusted as close as they can get them. Start with a tailor made frame and the root of the problem disappears.
I cannot get the relative positions of handlebars and seat on my Brompton to the same as my Hewitt and it causes pains in back (if ridden far enough), and knee (still experimenting with that) over short distances. As I only use it for my two commuting days a week and going to town it isn't a big problem.
You do get a lot more for your money in modern consumer goods these days than you used to but, like bespoke suiting, bespoke frames have always been ahead of the mass produced field. If you can afford bespoke go for it; you'll never regret it. If you can't, then compromise; buy what you can afford and move on later.

 

[simoncc]

I'm sure a customised frame can help some people who suffer from a physical ailment, but I don't see why most people buy them. I just don't think frame size is that critical for most people. All my bikes give me a different riding position and I find them all OK. I get the feeling that people who are serious about any hobby can often convince themselves that special equipment and expenditure is always required, and cyclists are no different in this respect. Nor are cyclists immune to being influenced by what they see as prestige/ designer makes of equipment.

The quality of mass produced bike frames, like the quality of most consumer items, has shot up in the last 20 years or so.

 

[Danny]

I've never had a custom frame, partly because I can't afford it and partly because I've tended to share Simonncc's views about getting sucked into buying prestige equipment.

However I am seriously thinking of getting a cutom bike next time because:
a) I do get lower back problems which I haven't got rid of by tweeking the bike myself so I would like to see if I would benefit from a bke that fits properly.
Mass produced frames like the Dawes Galaxy now have a narrower range of sizes than they used to in the "old days". Thorn is an exception, as has already been discussed, but their bikes can be as expensive as a custom bike - and in my case they are too far from where I live to make it practical to try one out at their premises.
c) When I have previously bought mass produced bikes I've ended up spending quite a lot upgrading various components, or quickly replacing cheap ones that fail, so I tend to feel that further reduces the cost differential.

 

[Gordon Eady]

My partner Sue has had a Thorn Club Tour for three years now and has ridden many thousand miles on it, she's delighted with it I must say. The Thorn philosophy of having the bike delivered all boxed up with a 14 day cooling off period worked for us. I accept that it's counter intuitive to buy such a large expensive item through mail order like this but their sizing and parts selection is so comprehensive you certainly have more choice than any off the peg bike. You could also opt for a 'frame only' too if you want to have the bike built up yourself? I reckon it's the bext value most flexible option to obtain a high quality steel frame touring bike without going the whole Roberts/Mercian boutique bike build route which invariably costs a whole lot more.