Thoughts on a Round Europe Trip

[MacB]

When you thinking of setting off, MacB? I have a carry freedom y-frame you can borrow for a test if you like. Not sure I can spare it for the tour itself, as I have no other means of transporting large quantities of beer...

Ta, will take you up on that if need be, that's one of the trailers I have tried but not on my own bike. Right now going lighter is meaning I'm speccing out minus trailer, the frame bag, when it arrives, will be the key influence on my final decision.

Set off will be next year possibly Apri/May, could be earlier but no later.

 

[MacB]

If you are looking to simply hide or cover the bike, consider a tarp. They will double as somewhere to sit under to cook if the weather is bad (cooking in the tent is not a great move because of all sorts of issues not least of all carbon monoxide and condensation...) and can be used to cover the bike when needed.

Hmmm, had already decided I would need a tarp, on the tent front the other contenders are:- MSR Hubba and the Nallo 3GT, the Nallo looks the easiest to put up and keep the important bits dry.

I think the Stelvio idea is only the luxury idea, able to work/cook and sit up inside but it's a lot of weight to carry. Probably easier just to take a lodge/hotel if I feel the need.

 

[psmiffy]

Never mind the weight but a tent that size will be more awkward to pitch, more susceptible to bad weather and is hardly stealthy if you need it to be and that's before you get to quality and whether it's good enough to be used for extensive touring rather than the odd summer wknd on the motorbike.

yup - even by my standards a monster of a tent - could not see it surviving 6months - waking up wondering whether the tent is going to last the night is not a good feeling - for the last ten years ive had the facility to put the bike in the tent - only done it twice - once when i camped in a rather open car park and there was nothing to attach the bike to - and the second time in an exposed layby where I was cowering and was worried that I wouldnt be able to find the bike in the morning in the snow.

If you are looking to simply hide or cover the bike, consider a tarp. They will double as somewhere to sit under to cook if the weather is bad (cooking in the tent is not a great move because of all sorts of issues not least of all carbon monoxide and condensation...) and can be used to cover the bike when needed.

I have always cooked in the tent - chosen so that with two doors and a very large vestible it was well ventilated - never had problems with condensation - but yes if you dont take precautions the CO thing can be nasty - there was a whole spate of deaths as I recall

 

[psmiffy]

How about tent across bars, minus pegs and poles, in a dry bag setup like this:-

https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Handle-Bar/Sweetroll

plenty of other similar options and maybe ends could be opened to allow evapouration/drying as required? Smartphone for GPS etc in a waterproof handlebar bracket hooked up to the Luxos U. Need to make sure that the Sweetroll style solution didn't interfere with fork crown mounted light. The weight of tent sans pegs and poles, even wet, shouldn't be more than a large bar bag. But as long as it worked with a dry tent that would be fine, could always be bungied out back when wet if that was too heavy.

If it works for you then why not - however - in quite a lot of kms Ive never seen a setup like that - check out fully loaded tourers and you will find there is a common theme - ditto work out the ratio of pannier to trailer setups

As to separating the tent into bits - personally all the tents I have ever bought come in a bag (these days the manufactures seem to be a bit more generous with the dimensions of the bags and it is possible to put the tent back in the bag) - my tent lives on the rear rack - when I come to camp I want the tent up as quickly as possible - 50% of the time its going to be dark soon, its going to rain or it is raining - everything together when I shake it out of the bag - Ive no need to open any other bags - The tent is always the last thing to be packed - everything else gets packed in the protection of the tent

Personally I never worry about the tent outer being wet - it is nice if it is dry but it is designed to be wet - the inner is another story but Im well practiced in getting the tent down in the rain without it getting wet - just fold it so only the groundsheet is exposed - not a big worry for me if the inner does get a bit damp - tent being big enough and well ventilated dries very quickly.

 

[snorri]

What psmiffy said regarding tent, pegs, etc all in one bag, and not on the ' bars . The 'bars are crowded enough with computer, gps, bell, hands
I'll never go camping again without my Exped Synmat http://www.exped.com/usa/en/product-category/mats/synmat-ul-7-m
I used to be perfectly comfortable on a cheapo foam mat, but on cooler nights it failed to insulate me from the cold ground. The Exped mat provides insulation and rolls up into a very compact package.
You did say money would not be an issue in which case I would go minimal on the cooking equipment you carry and eat out (a lot!). Eating out saves you time buying and preparing ingredients and washing up afterwards, going indoors for a meal provides a relaxing change after being exposed to the weather all day, even when the weather is fine. You also have a comfortable seat for an hour with a table for writing up notes etc. and often an opportunity for some casual chat with the locals. I happily cook for myself at home but just don't see any thing to commend cooking over a stove with minimal equipment, particularly after a full day in the saddle.

 

[MacB]

You did say money would not be an issue in which case I would go minimal on the cooking equipment you carry and eat out (a lot!). Eating out saves you time buying and preparing ingredients and washing up afterwards, going indoors for a meal provides a relaxing change after being exposed to the weather all day, even when the weather is fine. You also have a comfortable seat for an hour with a table for writing up notes etc. and often an opportunity for some casual chat with the locals. I happily cook for myself at home but just don't see any thing to commend cooking over a stove with minimal equipment, particularly after a full day in the saddle.

Yep, coming round to that thought myself, happy to rustle something up, but as I don't drink hot drinks, well tea and coffee I will have a hot chocolate once in a while just never made one, too much cooking stuff would be a waste. At the moment I've got an allowance of 2kg in for cooking and cutlery. I'm also not averse to the idea of a longer early cycle, stopping for a meal, shorter trip to campsite/accommodation and then a more liquid/snack evening.

At the moment I've just got a weight allowance in for sleeping stuff, 2.5kg to cover bag, mat and liner - though I quite like the idea of some silk jammies instead of a liner.

Overall I'm currently around 15kg for bike including rear rack, mudguards and dynamo lights but excluding luggage, and 25kg for kit including bags, electrics, chargers and mounts.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

@MacB we were fortunate enough to be able to view the Nallo 3GT and Nammatj 3GT side by side. We were set on the Nallo right up until we saw it along side the Nammatj. The Nallo had a number of disadvantages over the Nammatj, not least of all the fact that even I could not sit up in it along its entire length (and I am only 5 foot 6), and the fact that the poles have sleeve specific, so the orange one has to go in the orange hole... something the Nammatj does not have an issue with and when you are putting up the tent in the wind, wet and rain, you will be exceptionally grateful for any pole working in any sleeve. There were also a number of other issues, though I think the other main one we disliked has possibly been resolved on new models and that was that the ventilation at the foot end of the tent, could not be adjusted from within the tent - on the Nammatj it can be. Just something to bear in mind if weight is not a huge issue. There was also very little difference in the weight of the Nammatj 2GT and the Nammatj 3GT especially given the 5cm extra head room that the 3GT had over the 2GT (or was it 10cm, I can't remember now) which if you are around the 6foot height mark you will find very useful!

 

[jay clock]

Incidentally, I know you haven't got into the fine detail of kit yet but I'd recommend a chair of some sort. I use a lightweight 3-legged stool but for a fat bastard larger person like yourself you may be better off with a better quality chair.
@Dave Davenport and @jay clock may have better suggestions.​

I am on tour in Andalusia touring at present and spent the afternoon in my Alite Mantis chair. Fantastic bit of kit

 

[MacB]

I am on tour in Andalusia touring at present and spent the afternoon in my Alite Mantis chair. Fantastic bit of kit

Hmmm, looks identical to the Helinox Chair One that I've already added to my kit list. I'm hoping that it would also be useable roadside/lunchtime when required. Setup looks the same on both, just rig up the frame and then slot/stretch the mesh over the top, looked to be about 30 seconds of effort to me.

 

[Crankarm]

Hmmm, looks identical to the Helinox Chair One that I've already added to my kit list. I'm hoping that it would also be useable roadside/lunchtime when required. Setup looks the same on both, just rig up the frame and then slot/stretch the mesh over the top, looked to be about 30 seconds of effort to me.

@MacB the Alite Mantis that JayClock is on about is better than a Helinox - more back support, lighter and more compact packed size, but it is more expensive though, but worth the extra expense imho. I have one. I have tried both along side each other and the Mantis is better.

 

[MacB]

Well @snorri got me thinking further last night about tents, if conditions are really carp then I'm most likely to take a hotel. Also the first plan is Southern Europe through the Summer months. Whether I decide to carry on through Winter, or do the Northern bit the following Summer, I can always buy a more suitable tent then. So I've been looking at lighter weight options and ease of pitch, recommendations, etc. I am finding the self supporting dome style more attractive for pitching and internal headroom.

Ultralight - top of range/price seem to be the MSR Hubba Hubba NX or the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 - both sub 2kg even when you add in footprint etc - but they are both white and I would worry on durability

Light - MSR Hubba Hubba HP, a little heavier but has a green fly, then lots of options in the 2.5-3.5kg range

Also security, wild camping is self explanatory if I ever do any but campsites re bikes, tent and kit? I'm thinking about when going for a meal etc but also if I did any multi day stays to do some touristy stuff? Clearly valuables would stay with me but I don't really want to be carrying a tone of weight in locks.

 

[xilios]

Have you considered a tunnel tent? Check this one out. http://www.jack-wolfskin.co.uk/time-tunnel-ii-rt/3001122-4410.html also look at the video. The main advantage is in the rain you can put up the outer tent first than the ground sheet and once inside you can put up the inner tent nice and dry. It's what we do and has worked perfect.

 

[Crackle]

Tent durability, especially on better tents, is probably better than you think. A good tent will last, will be repairable and will be durable in the sense that it will erect easily, something you'll be bloody grateful for in bad weather when you're knackered and will also shed that bad weather. I reckon the worst thing to be in in a tent is high wind. You really want a tent that'll cope with that, especially as you are probably going to rely on this in remoter parts where you can't get other accommodation.

Geodesics are the most stable and will pitch in most terrains because they are self-standing but the compromise is they normally pitch inner first and weigh more compared to tunnels. Which you go for is personal preference. I camp mostly in the UK, so prefer tunnels because they pitch outer first in the all too frequent rain, if I was doing something like this I may go geodesic.

I've never found a problem finding somewhere to leave gear or bike, nor had a problem leaving it on a campsite. I do take a good u-lock though, again a personal choice. Although I did leave my keys on the ground in France once and ended up carrying a useless lock around for two weeks!

 

[MacB]

Have you considered a tunnel tent? Check this one out. http://www.jack-wolfskin.co.uk/time-tunnel-ii-rt/3001122-4410.html also look at the video. The main advantage is in the rain you can put up the outer tent first than the ground sheet and once inside you can put up the inner tent nice and dry. It's what we do and has worked perfect.

Yep there are a few attractive options especially the ones where inner and outer pitch together. But the freestanding dome style I'm looking at, or at least the MSR and Big Agnes ones can be pitched outer first. It's actually one of the standard pitch options using just fly and footprint for hot conditions. The inners clip to the poles rather than slide through sleeves.

 

[MacB]

I've never found a problem finding somewhere to leave gear or bike, nor had a problem leaving it on a campsite. I do take a good u-lock though, again a personal choice. Although I did leave my keys on the ground in France once and ended up carrying a useless lock around for two weeks!

As per previous post the wet pitch was a concern until I realised outer could be pitched first, still be some mopping of footprint I suppose. But how often will I be forced to camp and not able to get a 10 minute window to erect tent?

Locks I'm thinking this might work quite well:-

https://tigrlock.com/product/

The wider one either standard or long - nothing will be perfect but this wouldn't interfere with any of my luggage and puts the weight on the frame, about 1kg. I might throw in a cheapo alarmed padlock with thin cable as well.