Three Strange Things Related to The Current 100 Mile Time Trial Record ???

[Solocle]

Exactely!

Seems to me that the Aero position breaks every rule in the book! except for the "Ive Got More Money Than Sense! And I will Keep Buying And Using These Unsafe Bars Until I Kill Myself Or Another Rider! Meanwhile I am Making Companies That Manufacture Them into Millionaires!!!"

Millionaires I think not. I got a nice set of clip ons a while back for £30.

 

[matticus]

OK got that pic...I have made the Original better below...

So are Adam Wilds Brake levers legal! ?


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CTTC Regulations

https://www.cyclingtimetrials.org.uk/articles/view/11

14. Competitor's Machine
Every competitor must ensure that his machine is so constructed, equipped and maintained as to be capable of being ridden on the road safely at all times and in all conditions. The riding position shall be set so that the competitor has good forward vision when in a competitive position. In particular but without prejudice to the general principles of this regulation:

(a) Brake levers must be secured to the handlebars in such a position as to enable the competitor to readily apply both brakes whilst holding the handlebars at their widest point. The width of handlebars shall be no less than 35 cms.

(b) On tricycles and tandem tricycles, two brakes may operate on the front wheel but otherwise the braking systems must operate independently on both front and rear wheels.

(c) Bicycles with a fixed wheel shall have a left hand threaded locking device securing the fixed sprocket. Similarly, tricycles with a fixed wheel shall have a suitable locking device or alternatively shall include an integral system as part of the design. Machines with fixed wheel require only a brake operating on the front wheel(s).

(d) Machines fitted with triathlon handlebars and derivations thereof which have forearm supports, or Spinacci type handlebars without forearm supports, may be used provided that when the rider adopts a competitive position on these bars:

(i) The wrists are no lower than the elbows.
(ii) The height from the ground to the forearm resting position is no less than 80% of the height of the saddle from the ground.

(e) Tyres shall be in good condition and tubular tyres shall be securely attached to the rims.

(f) Disc wheels or spoked wheels fitted with covers may be used only on the rear of a machine.

(g) Deep section rims, tri-spoke and wheels of a similar design may be used. The front wheel must have at least 45% of the surface area open.

(h) The use of recumbent machines, protective shields or windbreaks is prohibited.

(i) No competitor shall be permitted to start either a Type A or Type B event unless such competitor has affixed to the rear of their machine a working rear red light, either flashing or constant, that is illuminated and in a position that is clearly visible to other road users.

N.B. The Board considers that use of the so called “tuck” and “superman” positions would be a breach of the opening paragraph of this Regulation and that such use is not in the best interests of the safety of riders or the welfare of the sport.
N.B. Para-cyclists who are unable to ride a machine that complies with this regulation shall apply to Board for dispensation.

Just out of interest; do you have numbers to show that attaching "proper" levers would have made him as slow as Engers?

 

[Anthony.R.Brown]

So according to the Original RTTC Rules below then both of the Tri Bars below are Illegal! because the Normal riding position ? for a Time Trial rider is on the Tri Bars,let's say 90% ? of the time.

The RTTC’s response was immediate, a rule was rushed through, the jist of which was that the brakes have to be operable from the ‘normal riding position.

And according to the New CTT Rules below

(a) Brake levers must be secured to the handlebars in such a position as to enable the competitor to readily apply both brakes whilst holding the handlebars at their widest point. The width of handlebars shall be no less than 35 cms.

Which for some strange reason ? and harks back to the Original RTTC having a personal issue with Alf Engers they had to include the "whilst holding the handlebars at their widest point" ? so as to make Alf's Banned brake levers still Banned! ???

But the Joke with all this is if you look at Alf's Banned brake levers below,including Tri Bar extensions like allowed today ? then Alf's are more of a Safety design! because it's easier to reach the Brake levers,if the levers are nearer the centre by the stem,on both sides which Alf's are!
Where as on Adam Wild's Tri bar set up,his hands are furthest away from the centre ? resulting in an emergency it will take longer to reach the levers! ? as shown in the photo below.

 

[classic33]

May well be easier reach, but which would be easier to actually use. Those that use the fingers to operate the brakes, or those where the flat of the hand is used.

The levers are behind the actual bar. And not operated from the widest point of the bars either.

 

[matticus]

CTT and UCI should copy the Driving Test: have an Emergency Stop test.

 

[T4tomo]

I did a bit of google-ing on our Alf, just in case his known sons were listed on Wikipedia, it seems he wasn't popular with the RTTC at all, but was quite a talent back in the day.

I'm not sure a one-man campaign on cyclechat and other less popular cycling forums is going to right that wrong though.

 

[classic33]

The fingers might have a certain amount of leverage ? but for sure the whole hand will always have more stopping power! so another + for Alf's levers.
There is nothing in both rules about if the levers can be in the front of the bars or behind ? and I mentioned the widest point above as a way of stopping Alf's levers being legal,and the advantage of Alf's which you missed ? is that they are nearer the centre where riders today hold 90% of the time in the Tri bar position.

The brake levers are/were fitted the wrong way round, plain and simple.
They were of a design used normally in front of the bars, not behind. The fingers "hook round" the levers in normal use.

I say remove the ban on recumbent records and the times tumble. It's not as though they're somety new, being banned by the UCI in 1934.

 

[Milkfloat]

Well I know it's hard for you with pictures and everything to keep up ? it's nothing about being naughtier it's about a rider turns up at TT after all the training and preparation,and is constantly stopped and not allowed to ride by the RTTC because of such petty things like brake levers! where as nowadays it looks like anything goes!
Without a doubt if Alf was not stopped from riding so many times by the RTTC then he would have broken the 50 minute barrier years before he did! and then he could have moved on to other distances,like you are saying the National 100 etc.

1.) Both riders are riding to the rules that applied to them.
2.) Rules in all sports continually evolve, complaining about that is of no use.
3.) Comparing riders from different eras is a pointless exercise and it is impossible to come out with a definitive answer of who was best.

 

[classic33]

Yes of course they were fitted around the wrong way! ? It's called Aerodynamics Alf was always doing things to lessen the drag! basically ahead of his time! now of course all Aerodynamic things are the norm,and more important allowed! ?
Whether the fingers hook round or are operated by the whole hand,the important thing is that they can equally be operated in fact more from the Aero position! than Adam Wild's regarding how long it takes to operate them!

Prove it!
And the fact that it can be done safely. Which after all is your main argument on this.

The design of the brake levers is for forward facing, not rearward facing. A cheap, and dangerous, attempt at circumventing the rules in place.

 

[Ian H]

The brake levers are/were fitted the wrong way round, plain and simple.
They were of a design used normally in front of the bars, not behind. The fingers "hook round" the levers in normal use.

I say remove the ban on recumbent records and the times tumble. It's not as though they're somety new, being banned by the UCI in 1934.

I'm not sure what the UCI has got to do with this. The thread is about events run under RTTC regs. In any case HPVs have their own organisations and events.
Off-topic quiz: Who has held both upright bike and faired HPV end-to-end records?

 

[classic33]

I'm not sure what the UCI has got to do with this. The thread is about events run under RTTC regs. In any case HPVs have their own organisations and events.
Off-topic quiz: Who has held both upright bike and faired HPV end-to-end records?

Other than showing that recumbents are nothing new, not a lot. They're also banned under RTTC regs, according to an earlier link posted earlier.

 

[matticus]

I'm not sure what the UCI has got to do with this. The thread is about events run under RTTC regs

The two have broadly evolved their rules in parallel, n'estcepas?

Spoiler: P.s.

Wilko?

 

[classic33]

How many proof examples do you want or need that Alf's brake lever's type can be used round both ways! ?


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Non of those match the ones pictured in your first post. They're all bar end mounted, not centre of the bars and behind them.

I can wait.

 

[classic33]

Rubbish! your quote "The design of the brake levers is for forward facing, not rearward facing. A cheap, and dangerous, attempt at circumventing the rules in place."

Your argument is that the lever is for forward facing ? it can be either way as long as there is leverage just like the examples I showed!

Next you will be saying the levers can't be facing down like the ones below ?

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All your examples have one thing in common, they are not operated in the same manner as those in the your first post.

 

[Ian H]

That whistling sound is a point being missed.