Time Trial PB's

[oldroadman]

10 mile: 00:21:22
25 mile: 00:54:20

Hill Climbs, best 3 positions, 4th, 5th, 8th (Entry to HC's goes on position rather than time as the hills are all different distances etc)

Now wouldn't that be a sensible way to sort out TTs, then all the standard distance stuff could be dumped. Just position and percentage of winners time expressed as 1xx.xx&. Much more accurate measure of who compares with who.

 

[montage]

Now wouldn't that be a sensible way to sort out TTs, then all the standard distance stuff could be dumped. Just position and percentage of winners time expressed as 1xx.xx&. Much more accurate measure of who compares with who.

Excludes those at the lower end of the field a bit!
OK if you are in the top half, slightly undermines the "you against the clock" attitude that a lot of newcomers enjoy.

 

[oldroadman]

Excludes those at the lower end of the field a bit!
OK if you are in the top half, slightly undermines the "you against the clock" attitude that a lot of newcomers enjoy.

Not at all.if you manage +112% or +128% it's still a direct comparison with the winning time and those you like to compare with, your own peer group. So you would know on the day, say you are at 118% and your peer is at 116% he/she was a little bit better on that day than you were. Comparing times over a fixed distance course on different days and inevitably in different weather has zero value as a guide to where anyone is, you have to essentially confront it's position that matters, and so long as you see improvement as getting higher finishing ranking the comparison with either winners or peer group is valid.
The old fixed distance and purely time cased system has so many flaws it's a complete nonsense.

Just for interest, the CTT calculate (under their antiquated system) a "best all rounder" at distance (for men) of 50, 100 miles and 12 hours TTs. They simply take the best average speed at any one qualifying event and convert it into an mph average. OK so far? Then the silly stuff starts - the AVERAGE SPEED over all three distances is the average of the averages...how does that work?
Lets say - 50 miles in 100 mins = 30mph
100 miles in 230 minutes = 26.1 mph
12 hours, 280 miles = 23.3mph
Under CTT BBAR rules, that's an average of 26.46mph.
Doing the time/distance calculation properly, the average spped over the entire distance is 24.57mph
A bit different, and seems to make the riders look faster on average than they actually are - most odd!
I knew all that maths study would come in handy sometime...

 

[Rob3rt]

Now wouldn't that be a sensible way to sort out TTs, then all the standard distance stuff could be dumped. Just position and percentage of winners time expressed as 1xx.xx&. Much more accurate measure of who compares with who.

I think the overall idea is a bit daft if you mean displaying results in this way, however, I think the system for selecting the field should pay less attention to absolute times and work on you vs the winner or some such. I had 3 or so entries rejected on fast courses this year because my times were too slow ("sorry you didn't get in, the event closed on xx:xx") yet a good handful of the people riding were people I would routinely beat on my local slow course! It was a bit irritating...

 

[totallyfixed]

The BBAR is something of a joke in this house, Rob3rt has touched on the problem and so has oldroadman. For a start you cannot opt out of it which is somewhat ridiculous if you only do SPOCOS but are just quick enough even on those, to qualify for a BBAR result. It's no fun to see your name at the bottom of the pile yet knowing full well that you are quicker than most of those above you.
TT'ers tend to consist of 2 types, those who are only interested in getting pb's and don't care how they get it - ski slope gift start [South Wales] / heavy traffic on a concrete dc etc, and those who ride to get a good position in relation to their peers or the winning time.
Many people can't get into the Nationals because they won't ride the dc's, I personally know some very good riders who deserve a crack at a National but can't get in because of their "slow" entry time from a slow course. I think this is a ridiculous state of affairs and needs addressing.
My idea, and I have suggested this on the TT forum but mostly ignored because it is by and large populated by the pb, dc chasers, is to have a number of safe, non dc courses spread around the country that have historically produced similar winning times, and use these as qualifiers for Nationals.
Mini rant over.

 

[montage]

Know how much you beat or lost your close rival by is one of the things that makes TTing interesting. Club riders tend to use their time on a local TT course to gauge fitness gains as well. Sporting courses are only any fun for those going for a decent overall placing, and pretty much suck for those in the bottom half of the table. Yes calculating qualification times for the nationals is currently a bit naff.

 

[Rob3rt]

This years National 10 is going to be on a V718 variant, the closing time is likely to be very fast, I am guessing middling 20. I did want to ride the National this year, because these big events have a good atmosphere, but I probably won't get in, unless I can be arsed to go to Hull in the early season and smash out a short 20 (I reckon I can do it, but not really into travelling all the way to Hull via public transport for a 10TT again! Should have already done it back in August tbh but had a bad day on my last trip over there).

National HC and Circuit Champs for me I think!

I am someway in the middle of @totallyfixed's TT categories, I do ride DC's (well, I have done a few, maybe 5 out of 40+ races) and I like it, there is a thrill in battering along in the mid 30's on the flat without having to navigate bends or dodge pot holes. But it gets boring quick and I do prefer a "hard" course. Although, can't say I love riding round J2/9 every weekend of the summer though!

 

[CJMac]

I have only ridden a couple of 10 mile time trials as I have only been riding for a few months. I managed a 32:36 on a local 10 mile route on just my standard road bike with no TT additions (i.e. Tri bars or aero wheels etc) and my bike isn't carbon either.. Is that a good time for a beginner with only a couple of months' experience of riding to begin to improve on for next year?

 

[totallyfixed]

I have only ridden a couple of 10 mile time trials as I have only been riding for a few months. I managed a 32:36 on a local 10 mile route on just my standard road bike with no TT additions (i.e. Tri bars or aero wheels etc) and my bike isn't carbon either.. Is that a good time for a beginner with only a couple of months' experience of riding to begin to improve on for next year?

Depends on your fitness, weight, how hilly the course is and a zillion other things, so basically if you had said how long is a piece of string it would have been easier. Also if no one is speaking to you after your efforts in the 10 and giving you encouragement, I would ride elsewhere. Most beginners will have "evens" or 30 mins for a 10 as their first target, good luck.

 

[Rob3rt]

Agree with the above. Without having an idea on the course and conditions, impossible to say. Knowing the winning time and the riders pedigree (i.e. what they are capable of so you can see how far off their pace your are %age wise) would help. Knowing your position % wise in the field would also indicate in relative terms how well you did in that singular event.

 

[jazzkat]

I have only ridden a couple of 10 mile time trials as I have only been riding for a few months. I managed a 32:36 on a local 10 mile route on just my standard road bike with no TT additions (i.e. Tri bars or aero wheels etc) and my bike isn't carbon either.. Is that a good time for a beginner with only a couple of months' experience of riding to begin to improve on for next year?

I did a similar time and had the same questions 4 or 5 years ago when I started TTing. The thing is, the only person you are racing is you. Did you ride as hard as you could? If so give yourself a pat on the back, you did great!!

I started with my aluminium road bike, later that year I added aero bars. This year I've bought an aero helmet and I'm going to buy a skin suit. In some ways its a bit of a waste as it will only make me faster by making me more aero, but as all the people quicker than me have these plus disc wheels, fancy bikes etc I'm hoping it will move me up the placings.

The biggest things that have made me faster is
a) losing weight
b) getting stronger
c)pushing harder than I thought I could .
10mile TT's really are about hurting yourself!!

 

[ColinJ]

I was walking down a road t'other day as white van man came hurtling up the road in the other direction. There was no pavement so I was keeping in tight to the roadside but the berk still came far too close to me. I turned to shout at him and watched a long trail of leaves, whipped up by the passage of the van, tumbling rapidly up the road after it.

It struck me that this is exactly the effect that riders seeking PBs on dragstrip TT courses are looking for. It doesn't make sense to me, comparing times from one event to another when they can be so greatly affected by effectively drafting vehicles.

 

[oldroadman]

I was walking down a road t'other day as white van man came hurtling up the road in the other direction. There was no pavement so I was keeping in tight to the roadside but the berk still came far too close to me. I turned to shout at him and watched a long trail of leaves, whipped up by the passage of the van, tumbling rapidly up the road after it.

It struck me that this is exactly the effect that riders seeking PBs on dragstrip TT courses are looking for. It doesn't make sense to me, comparing times from one event to another when they can be so greatly affected by effectively drafting vehicles.

Exactly.

 

[HLaB]

Lol, on my first TT down here, I got caught by my minute man; I doubled the effort and blasted by him like he was dead on the slope; a mile and a bit later he came by looking fresh I was then told why, he'd been drafting me

 

[totallyfixed]

Lol, on my first TT down here, I got caught by my minute man; I doubled the effort and blasted by him like he was dead on the slope; a mile and a bit later he came by looking fresh I was then told why, he'd been drafting me

You should have reported him, he would have been disqualified, without mentioning names a woman in a long distance National TT this year drafted another competitor and deprived others of a higher placing.
To add to Colin's post, there are actually some who will request an early or late start on their entry for a TT when it is on a fast DC because they know that traffic is heavier then.
Cheating in all it's forms is not restricted to pros.