Token T90TK Carbon Tubular 90mm Track Wheelset – an interesting conundrum!

[AlanW]

So why does the Velodrome Shop sell them under the heading 'Track Tubulars'?

I have no idea, but that was the response I got back when I asked? Im guessing that could maybe be referring to an outside tarmac track?

Why do Token produce track wheels that you cannot buy 25mm track tubular tyres for?

If I were in you position and bearing in mind I wouldn't be tear arsing around like Chris Hoy I would give the 25mm tyres a go.

Its not that easy is it as you have to glue the dam things on just to give it a go. Then if they dont perform or grip how you want them to then you have the hassle of removing them plus the old glue before you can start all over again.

The only other option would be to send the wheels back as they are clearly not fit for purpose.

They have already been returned and a full credit agreed.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Because it isn't completely slick. They need to be slick tyres otherwise what happened to my 14yo ten days ago occurs: he was taken out by a novice riding on road tyres. Three hospital visits later ...

OK, but was it the novice or the tyres that did whatever caused the accident?

I completely understand the banning of dual-compound tyres - those will be slippery, but tyres with a fake file tread is the same as a slick.

 

[derrick]

So you can use the wheels with the 25mm tubs, but on an outdoor track, is that right?

 

[AlanW]

So you can use the wheels with the 25mm tubs, but on an outdoor track, is that right?

Yes, and perhaps if they added that to the product description it would be a start? That said you are pretty limited on tyre choice?

 

[DCLane]

OK, but was it the novice or the tyres that did whatever caused the accident?

A combination of both: he was given a different set of wheels and nearly caused another accident later on.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

A combination of both: he was given a different set of wheels and nearly caused another accident later on.

That to me sounds like user error, not tyre error. It is a small experiment but still, he had good tyres, he crashed, he had bad tyres, he crashed. User error. What am I missing?

 

[rogerzilla]

Calshot allows a max tyre size of 23mm, I think. Some track bikes (mine included) won't take anything bigger than a 23mm anyway - a 25mm would touch the fork crown.

 

[DCLane]

That to me sounds like user error, not tyre error. It is a small experiment but still, he had good tyres, he crashed, he had bad tyres, he crashed. User error. What am I missing?

According to the coach it was both: the road tyres caused the initial slide and he then panicked due to inexperience.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

According to the coach it was both: the road tyres caused the initial slide and he then panicked due to inexperience.

I think the coach is speaking through his whistle about the slide.Those tyres were not the cause of the accident.

 

[Kempstonian]

I think the coach is speaking through his whistle about the slide.Those tyres were not the cause of the accident.

Sorry but I don't see how you could possibly know that. Unless you were there and saw the accident?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Sorry but I don't see how you could possibly know that. Unless you were there and saw the accident?

Let's look at my deduction:
1) Person has accident. Tyres are blamed with no evidence to prove it. No description of the mode of failure, nothing.
2) Wheels (and therefore tyres), are swapped and experiment is repeated.
3) Person has another accident.
4) Blame the tyres, they say.
5) Blame the rider, I say.

By the same argument that supposedly blames the tyres, you have to blame the colour of the bike, the length of the crank, the colour of the inexperienced youth's pants.

Yes, I wasn't there, but cause and effect can be judged from a distance.

I still don't understand why some tyres (other than the obvious knobbly MTB tyres etc) are not allowed on the track.

 

[fossala]

I still don't understand why some tyres (other than the obvious knobbly MTB tyres etc) are not allowed on the track.

I would guess it's to do with contact patch. In perfect conditions, slicks offer the most grip. Why do you think F1 cars have slick tyres?

 

[Kempstonian]

Let's look at my deduction:
1) Person has accident. Tyres are blamed with no evidence to prove it. No description of the mode of failure, nothing.
2) Wheels (and therefore tyres), are swapped and experiment is repeated.
3) Person has another accident.
4) Blame the tyres, they say.
5) Blame the rider, I say.

By the same argument that supposedly blames the tyres, you have to blame the colour of the bike, the length of the crank, the colour of the inexperienced youth's pants.

Yes, I wasn't there, but cause and effect can be judged from a distance.

I still don't understand why some tyres (other than the obvious knobbly MTB tyres etc) are not allowed on the track.

Here's my deductions:
1) Tyre slips, contributing to first accident
2) Rider changes wheels/tyres
3) Rider does not slip but has another accident
4) First accident, blame the tyres
5) Second accident, blame the rider (unless someone crashed into him)

We don't know the circumstances of the second accident, so we can't apportion blame. If his tyres had slipped again I'm sure DCLane would have mentioned that and he didn't mention another rider being at fault, so blaming the rider seems right.

The reason some tyres are not allowed is that they don't grip as well as treadless track tyres do and track racing often requires sudden changes in direction.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I would guess it's to do with contact patch. In perfect conditions, slicks offer the most grip. Why do you think F1 cars have slick tyres?

Explain how the contact patch of a slick and file-tread tyre differs.
Then tell us why F1 cars have slick tyres.

 

[AlanW]

A response from the UK Importer:-

Hi Alan
I have passed on your feedback to Token, who were genuinely appreciative of it.
It turns out that Token were anticipating an industry shift with regards to track tyres that never actually materialised. As industry's 'standards' are now very fluid and sometimes short-lived I guess that there will inevitably be products that slightly miss the mark. Token have apologised for any inconvenience that you may have encountered due to this situation.