Token T90TK Carbon Tubular 90mm Track Wheelset – an interesting conundrum!

Discussion in 'Components, Accessories and Clothing' started by AlanW, 14 Jan 2019 at 11:17.

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  1. AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
    Firstly, let me start by saying that these are really well-built wheels and probably some of smoothest bearings I’ve seen in years.

    Now comes the but…….!

    I purchased these track wheels a week ago from Chain Reaction Cycles and it makes no mention in the product description on their web page nor on the Token website page that these rims are designed to be used with 25mm width tubulars ONLY. The major flaw here is that no one produces a track specific 25mm tubular tyre! At the same time I also purchased a pair of 23mm Vittoria Pista tubs and prior to starting the gluing process I had placed them “dry” on the rims for 24 hours in order to stretch them. But it was at this stage that I noticed that the profile of the tyre when fully inflated to the recommended pressure (130psi) was considerably less than the profile of the rim? There was probably a 1mm gap on either side of the side wall between the tyre and the rim. So even when glued there was always going to be unnecessary stress on the adhesive in order to secure the tyre to the rim.

    Given the stresses and strains on tyres riding on an indoor velodrome and the consequences if it went wrong, before I proceeded to start gluing I sought clarification that 23mm tubs were okay to fit. I contacted CRC Customer Services who did not know the answer and pointed me to Token direct. So via the Token website I asked the question, and waited for a reply, and waited…….

    Meanwhile, I had also contacted the UK Importer for Token products who also didn’t know the answer to my question but said that they would contact Token direct. Surprisingly, and within 24 hours the UK importer had mailed me back and advised me that the rims were only to be used with 25mm tubular tyres only. When I said that no one actually made a 25mm track specific tubular tyres, the line went silent. The UK Importer said that he was going to get back to Token and see what they say? Still waiting....

    I then contacted Vittoria and also Continental and it was confirmed that neither companies make a 25mm track specific tubular tyre, nor do they have any plans to do so. I also searched around the web and I can confirm that 25mm track tubular tyres do not exist by any other manufacturer either.

    So the question is, why produce a track wheelset that you cannot buy tyres for? I suspect that someone at Token HQ has simply taken a 90mm road rim and then designed a track wheel set before making sure that 25mm track specific tubular tyre are available first before sending them into production.

    However, the issue is bigger and more serious than this, so what have people fitted that have already purchased these wheels? The only option is 23mm, (or of course 19mm!) which raises a big concern as it will only be a matter of time before the tyre rolls of the rim. The chances are that that the person will probably be riding in a group on an indoor velodrome on a fixed wheel bike with no brakes.

    IMHO - all the customers that have purchased these track wheels should be contacted and advised before someone (and potentially others) is injured and at the very least it should be mentioned in the product description?

    Needless to say the wheels has since been returned for a refund!
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2019 at 11:23
  2. DCLane

    DCLane Found in the Yorkshire hills ...

    My guess is they've got some 25mm tubular rims and decided to put hubs on them. I'm wondering whether they'd be suitable for grasstrack and a larger tyre?
     
  3. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

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    Not to sure?
    The rims are from their tubular road wheel range I think, and Continental do a 25mm Roubaix competition tubular, but you wouldn't really want to use that on the track.
     
  4. Yellow Saddle

    Yellow Saddle Veteran

    Location:
    Loch side.
    Why can't that tyre be used on a track?
     
  5. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

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    Not to sure?
    Good question, other than Continental certainly did not recommend it and when I asked at Newport and Derby while the answer that came back was not a 100%clear cut "no", it was certainly frowned upon and it would be considered much better if you didn't.
     
  6. derrick

    derrick The Glue that binds us together.

  7. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
    Its not a track specific tyre, see my post above
     
  8. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
  9. fossyant

    fossyant Ride It Like You Stole It!

    Location:
    South Manchester
    The only specification that Manchester say about 'tyres' is no dual compound, so why not use a high performance road tub - GP 4000 !
     
  10. DCLane

    DCLane Found in the Yorkshire hills ...

    Because it isn't completely slick. They need to be slick tyres otherwise what happened to my 14yo ten days ago occurs: he was taken out by a novice riding on road tyres. Three hospital visits later ... :cursing:
     
  11. Spiderweb

    Spiderweb Not So Special One

    Location:
    North Yorkshire
  12. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
    I also believe that there was a quite serious accident at Derby fairly recently that was also attributed to the poor tyre choice, so they have clamped down.

    Manchester are very strict in listing specific make and models:

    upload_2019-1-14_13-50-26.png
     
    Last edited: 14 Jan 2019 at 13:56
  13. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
    I did actually speak to the Velodrome shop about these and the reply was and I quote :

    "Hi Alan, The use of 25mm tyres is a road specific trend, it is best to use a maximum of 23mm on the track, most professional riders use 19mm".

    So while they are not saying that you cannot use them, it is recommended that you don't.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    AlanW

    AlanW Veteran

    Location:
    Not to sure?
    That's what really worries me about these wheels and the fitment of tyres of a lesser diameter than what the rim was intended for. Its an accident waiting to happen.:thumbsdown:

    Ive raised my concerns with both Chain Reaction and Wiggle (one of the same I know) and neither have responded to my mails. I've also written reviews on the wheels for both web sites raising my concerns and warning others, but neither review has been published.:ninja:
     
  15. Spiderweb

    Spiderweb Not So Special One

    Location:
    North Yorkshire
    So why does the Velodrome Shop sell them under the heading 'Track Tubulars'?
    If I were in you position and bearing in mind I wouldn't be tear arsing around like Chris Hoy I would give the 25mm tyres a go.
    The only other option would be to send the wheels back as they are clearly not fit for purpose.

    I hope you get some answers from the other parties.
     
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