Trouble shifting to outer ring with 105 5700 FD

[confusedcyclist]

A few months back when the roads were being salted, my FD started being difficult to shift up to outer ring. I thought it was a tension issue, so tweaked the barrel adjuster, all seemed well again.

Then a few weeks later I was really struggling to shift from inner to outer ring again. I stored the bike for a week until I had a chance to look into it. By the time I was able to do a close inspection I noticed the FD had completely seized, 'must have be the salt on the roads' I thought. I took it apart, bathed in WD40 and worked the pivots by hand. Seemed to work OK again in the stand, there was no obvious gritty feeling or build up of dirt worth mentioning. I cleaned it thoroughly and reinstalled the FD, yet I was still struggling to get into outer ring.

I then checked the cabling, the outer was in bad shape, looking fairly rusted, so I replaced both inner and outer. Hoping this would fix it, I also checked the FD alignment and limit screws, no problems there either. However I am still having to use a god like amount of force when the bike is in the stand to get the FD to shift to outer ring. When on the road, it's even worse, and unless the RD is in or near the outer cog, the chain doesn't shift to the outer ring, just clattering of the chain as I ride along.

Any thoughts? I hope it's not the shifters, they are pricey, and I can't think why they might fail. When pulling the gear cable by hand near under the down tube, there doesn't seem to be any unusual resistance and the bike shifts fine. Could there be damage to the spring? Seen as though this is moving to outer from inner, I figure the spring isn't that important anyway in this motion? When the gear cable is free and untensioned, the shift lever (105 5700 drops) doesn't seem to be damaged either and clicks correctly according to the indexing/trim as expected.

So to summarise:

I checked:

1. FD alignment/height
2. Greased all pivots
3. Checked cable tension
4. Adjusted limiter screws
5. Changed cables
6. Squirted lever internals with WD-40

What could I be missing?

 

[User6179]

A few months back when the roads were being salted, my FD started being difficult to shift up to outer ring. I thought it was a tension issue, so tweaked the barrel adjuster, all seemed well again.

Then a few weeks later I was really struggling to shift from inner to outer ring again. I stored the bike for a week until I had a chance to look into it. By the time I was able to do a close inspection I noticed the FD had completely seized, 'must have be the salt on the roads' I thought. I took it apart, bathed in WD40 and worked the pivots by hand. Seemed to work OK again in the stand, there was no obvious gritty feeling or build up of dirt worth mentioning. I cleaned it thoroughly and reinstalled the FD, yet I was still struggling to get into outer ring.

I then checked the cabling, the outer was in bad shape, looking fairly rusted, so I replaced both inner and outer. Hoping this would fix it, I also checked the FD alignment and limit screws, no problems there either. However I am still having to use a god like amount of force when the bike is in the stand to get the FD to shift to outer ring. When on the road, it's even worse, and unless the RD is in or near the outer cog, the chain doesn't shift to the outer ring.

Any thoughts? I hope it's not the shifters, they are pricey, and I can't think why the might fail. When pulling the gear cable by hand near under the down tube, there doesn't seem to be any unusual resistance and the bike shifts fine. Could there be damage to the spring? Seen as though this is moving to outer from inner, I figure the spring isn't that important anyway in this motion? When the gear cable is free and untensioned, the shift lever (105 5700 drops) doesn't seem to be damaged either and clicks correctly according to the indexing/trim as expected.

So to summarise:

I checked:

1. FD alignment
2. Greased all pivots
3. Checked cable tension
4. Adjusted limiter screws
5. Changed cables
6. Squirted lever internals with WD-40

What could I be missing?

If you rule everything else out then maybe this

I had an issue with two Ultegra 6700 L/H shifter which I think is just the same as the 5700 but with carbon levers .

Both times it started at about 4000 miles where shifting becomes harder then eventually the shifter jams .

I used google the second time it happened and discovered the retaining bolt on the L/H shifter can loosen over time before eventually falling out .

The retaining nut is located by pulling on the brake and looking inside the top of the lever , to tighten the bolt you have to remove the lever and tighten from underneath , the bolt goes right through and all the workings of the shifter are on the bolt .

I guarantee there is hundreds if not thousands of these shifters binned because folk think the shifter is knackered when all it needs is tightened or in my case a replacement nut with some glue to stop it loosening again.

Edit- watch this video, skip to 2 minutes.

View: https://youtu.be/yluBRlqllUE

 

[confusedcyclist]

I'm running the 105 5700 shifters, but certainly worth a go, thanks for taking the time to respond, I'll let you know if it works.

 

[lpretro1]

I suspect you need a new front derailleur

 

[confusedcyclist]

Yes I think so too, but it's only two years old and done 4,000 miles so don't want to give up just yet.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Shimano STI shifters are a lot of balls. They are very fiddly to keep working well. Try squirting lube into the shifter, if that doesn't have any effect do what @Eddy said above.

 

[Ajax Bay]

When pulling the gear cable by hand near under the down tube, there doesn't seem to be any unusual resistance and the bike shifts fine.

I suspect you need a new front derailleur

Why do you think the FD is the problem? If the OP can get the FD to change up and down by pulling/releasing the cable by hand then on that evidence I suggest the FD is fine. The cable and outer have been replaced and all else checked. This leaves the shifter so I think the OP needs to check whether @Eddy has provided inspiration. The 5700s were the first 105s to have under bar tape cable routing and this increased frictional losses. This implies greater forces and greater likelihood of failure. Later models have mitigated that issue, as a result of experience, one assumes. Replacement STIs secondhand are readily available. Could go for 4700.

 

[accountantpete]

They are the usual signs of the start of L/H shifter failure - increased pressure needed to change but no problems with the cabling.

On earlier models it was a cheap bit of monkey metal that cracked and then fractured. I went to the LBS the other day and he was spraying WD40 on a L/H 5700 shifter as a last resort and he thinks they replaced the cheap metal with plastic - which also breaks

 

[confusedcyclist]

Yes, spent another 30 minutes faffing with the FD alignment and limiters, it's definitely not the problem. Getting sufficient pull on the cable seems to be the issue, and tensioning the adjuster further isn't doing it. Hopefully Eddy is right about the bolt tightening... it's an expensive fix otherwise.

Any thoughts on the 4700 vs the 5700 shifter, is it considered a significant downgrade?

 

[Racing roadkill]

Yes, spent another 30 minutes faffing with the FD alignment and limiters, it's definitely not the problem. Getting sufficient pull on the cable seems to be the issue, and tensioning the adjuster further isn't doing it. Hopefully Eddy is right about the bolt tightening... it's an expensive fix otherwise.

Any thoughts on the 4700 vs the 5700 shifter, is it considered a significant downgrade?

The 4700 shifter is utter gash. I've got 4700, 5800, and 6800 groupsets / shifters, the 4700 is terrible in comparison to the other 2 ( which aren't all that good ).

 

[Ajax Bay]

I've got 4700, 5800, and 6800 groupsets / shifters, the 4700 is terrible in comparison to the other 2 ( which aren't all that good ).

Why on earth are you running any of them, then?
Having said that, maybe they aren't so bad as you make out.
Option for the OP is 5700 or 4700, or go for a left STI which hasn't got under tape cable routing.
NB (and I ack you are not suggesting this): 5800 and 6800 are 11sp so not an option for the OP.

 

[confusedcyclist]

LBS was pretty helpful, they pulled out an old 4600 Tiagra shifter from the parts bin for a tenner, my bike contravenes several fashion rules now but it's functional at least.

The 5700 shifter didn't have the bolt mentioned in the youtube vid @Eddy , but upon closer inspection, there was a loose spring in the guts of the shifter. Not sure where it came from, but not doubt was the cause of the fault. I think I will upgrade the group set to the new 105 if I can get it at the right price, so the shifter's a temporary measure.

I can attest to the fact that Tiagra is clunky as hell compared with 105, but luckily its only the FD shifter!

 

[confusedcyclist]

Doh, just gone back and read Eddy's post again, didn't realise it was behind the lever. I'll go have another look. Maybe I can put off the groupset upgrade a little longer after all...

 

[User6179]

LBS was pretty helpful, they pulled out an old 4600 Tiagra shifter from the parts bin for a tenner, my bike contravenes several fashion rules now but it's functional at least.

View attachment 341082

The 5700 shifter didn't have the bolt mentioned in the youtube vid @Eddy , but upon closer inspection, there was a loose spring in the guts of the shifter. Not sure where it came from, but not doubt was the cause of the fault. I think I will upgrade the group set to the new 105 if I can get it at the right price, so the shifter's a temporary measure.

I can attest to the fact that Tiagra is clunky as hell compared with 105, but luckily its only the FD shifter!

I had to do the same when I was waiting for my L/H 6700 shifter to be replaced under warranty , Tiagra does the job fine , just feels a bit awkward to start with.

 

[User6179]

Doh, just gone back and read Eddy's post again, didn't realise it was behind the lever. I'll go have another look. Maybe I can put off the groupset upgrade a little longer after all...

Just look underneath for the hex bolt , the nut at the top is retained so does not turn when you tighten the bolt from the bottom.