TT on A1

[John the Monkey]

I've time trailed on NLS dual carriageways a couple of times, marshalled them a couple of times... come to think of it I cycle on one quite regularly. Contrary to what some might think, it's not a recipe for instant DETH. In fact, a quiet DC is actually better in some ways than a narrow lane or (worse) a single carriage country A road because there is far more room to overtake - and the overwhelming majority of motorists do use that room. Saying that, I tend to avoid them when they are busy, because it is more difficult to overtake thanks to the volume of traffic and close passes are much more likely.

It can happen anywhere - a few winters ago, someone swerved at me deliberately because I wasn't on the cyclepath alongside Crewe Road (it was covered in snow and ice at the time, as, as usual, only the road had been gritted). The guy had loads of room (the lane alongside being completely empty) to pass safely, he just objected to a bike being on "his" road.

 

[jazzkat]

I don't think time-trialling on busy roads is that big a deal providing it's well signed and marshalled.

I marshalled at my local 10TT at an on slip road just after the start (at the bottom of a big hill). I'm not 'allowed' by law to slow the traffic so when I saw a rider coming down the hill I stepped into a more prominent position at the side of the slip road. In all but one case it was enough to slow the traffic coming onto the dual carriageway and cause them to look more closely. The one was an older gent in a jaguar that just made it onto the carriage way before the rider.

Later on after all the riders had gone I went over to the other side of the carriage way to the off ramp where a pal was marshalling. While there we saw lots of examples of very fast and in some cases out of control driving (a land rover, clearly over the speed limit and absolutely on the limit of it's handling with tyres squirming). My pal said that one of the 'old hands' had said to him once you've marshalled it, it makes you think twice about riding it.
I actually road it a few weeks later. No issues.

Our TT's, club and open, are very well signed and marshalled and the reality of the situation is that most road users are considerate, but just as in life, there is a minority who are cockwombles and will ignore law, rules of the road and people stood at the side of the road in fluro jackets - just because they can.

 

[jowwy]

IME TTs on the main dual carriageways around here are better than the standard narrow two laners. Cars, vans, trucks, lorrys can see you in the distance and have plenty of time and room to move over.

To me its as safe as riding on any other road.

 

[Crankarm]

The A1 is like motorway. I don't like driving it and wouldn't even dream of cycling it far too dangerous.

A cyclist was killed on it at Tempsford a few years ago riding a TT knocked down by car driven by a young girl as he passed by a slip road.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Tributes-to-cyclist-killed-in-crash-3.htm

 

[the_mikey]

Cycling on the A1 is a bit like saying Cycling on the A38, where the A38 in Derbyshire is very much like a motorway, not so much in Somerset... Single carriageway roads aren't safer by default either.

 

[totallyfixed]

Ha! a topic that will divide opinion in the TT world almost as much as the Shimano v Campag subject. Speaking as someone who has been involved in the TT world for quite some time now, there will of course be the usual entrenched opinions even from those who have little or no knowledge of the sport. I will say this though, from the point of view of those who compete on DC's, they will defend their "right" to do so because it is an opportunity to get a "PB" and that is often the be all and end all, in fact the busier the road, the better to take advantage of the drag from overtaking traffic, there are even those who welcome HGV's overtaking closely, [I know some of them personally] particularly useful when there is a headwind.
Those that do not ride DC's [and this will mean that as a man you are unlikely for instance to make the cut for the National 10 having not recorded a fast time on a drag strip, how fair is that?] will say that although overall there are less "incidents" on DC's, the ones that do occur are invariably either extremely serious or fatal because of the relatively high speeds, plus the danger is where you cannot see it, behind you.
My only personal comment is, everyone should have a right to ride on any road they wish [excepting motorways], it is not the roads per se that are dangerous, it is the behaviour of the drivers on that road. You can extrapolate from this statement that some types of road encourage dangerous driving, eg poor attention, speeding. We choose not to ride the DC drag strips which has consequences in ranking for Nationals.
This argument has been ongoing for many years in the TT world and will continue to do so. Suffice to say there are many quality riders who are "missing" off the records.

 

[User6179]

[QUOTE 3134166, member: 30090"]Here we go....

Cyclists are killed on all manor of roads - DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE DANGEROUS.

Get back on the pavement, on your guided bus path thing rook.[/QUOTE]

Why would you want to hold a TT on a busy road if you could hold it on a road that was not busy ?

 

[User6179]

[QUOTE 3134182, member: 30090"]Dunno, I don't TT.

My point is though roads are not dangerous, unless of course this inanimate slab of asphalt and bitumen suddenly morphs into a giant monster by the name of.... road monster.[/QUOTE]

Roads are not dangerous , impatient nobs in cars are though , only reason they TT on these roads is for a quick time .

 

[Crankarm]

[QUOTE 3134166, member: 30090"]Here we go....

Cyclists are killed on all manor of roads - DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE DANGEROUS.

Get back on the pavement, on your guided bus path thing rook.[/QUOTE]


Who let you out?

 

[Crankarm]

[QUOTE 3134182, member: 30090"]Dunno, I don't TT.

My point is though roads are not dangerous, unless of course this inanimate slab of asphalt and bitumen suddenly morphs into a giant monster by the name of.... road monster.[/QUOTE]

Beano knocks fnck all about what he is talking about as he has never ridden or marshalled a TT which gives him every right to wade in and tell every one who does know what they are talking about that they are wrong. Priceless!

 

[Crankarm]

[QUOTE 3134218, member: 30090"]You did not really get what I saying did you?[/QUOTE]

Nope and I don't care. Why don't you type properly? Have you been on the sauce again?

 

[Wobblers]

The A1 is like motorway. I don't like driving it and wouldn't even dream of cycling it far too dangerous.

A cyclist was killed on it at Tempsford a few years ago riding a TT knocked down by car driven by a young girl as he passed by a slip road.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Tributes-to-cyclist-killed-in-crash-3.htm

Two weeks ago, a woman was killed at a bus stop not a quarter of a mile from my house - I'm not sure of all the details, but by the skid marks still on the road, I suspect the culprit was speeding excessively (there are plenty of morons that regard the Hagley Road as the perfect drag strip, sadly). I happen to walk by that bus stop very regularly, more often than I use DCs or indeed TT. Should I then desist in walking on pavements, as your logic would suggest? Come to think of it, I cycle by there even more often...

The fact is, everything has a risk - there is no activity that is risk free. That one activity has a higher risk than another does not mean that it is inherently dangerous, because these are very small probabilities we're talking about, and twice a very small number is still a very small number. The risk of dual carriageways or time trialling is much lower than most people would believe - but we as a species are actually rather bad in judging risk. And, as @User30090 points out, this already low risk can be further reduced by appropriate behaviour.

 

[Rob3rt]

As someone who races time trials at least weekly, I have raced various types of course. SC, DC, SPOCO, Hill Climb and my personal opinion is that racing on DC's (the ones I have raced on anyway) is a reasonable thing to do. I think of it in risk assessment terms, frequency of incidents is lower on DC's, severity is higher. On SC and SPOCO courses, incidence rate higher, severity lower, in risk assessment terms, the risk is around equal. I deem the chance of incident on a DC course low enough for me to ride it (course and condition dependant, I have DNS'd twice this year on the A50, due to excess spray and reduced visibility - both events did go ahead and many people did ride, without incident), some people think otherwise, thus they are welcome not to ride. Of course this will mean certain events end up missing some strong riders, but then again, every course will put some of the big names off.

I mostly race local on SC courses and I enjoy it, but I am not opposed to and will travel to fast courses a few times per year.

I've raced on various DC courses, including the A50 between Blythe Bridge and Uttoxeter and the A63 at South Cave.

The reason I go to these courses is ultimately for the fast times, but also because they attract riders from all over the country so you get to test yourself against fast men from all over the place. On top of that, it is a different kind of race and it offers a change of scenery, you can see ahead a long way, the surfaces are usually pretty good, cars can see you from a long way back (especially if you have a good rear light, which is something I do have), there are no real technical elements to contend with etc. In a way it is a dumbing down of the race, in a way which lets you concentrate on other things more carefully and experience the act of racing in a different way.

Subjectively speaking, I feel a lot more on edge racing SPOCO events than riding down a DC (which doesn't put me on edge at all)! Certain things happen with such frequency on my local SC courses that I now pre-emptively try to control the road at certain points in anticipation of the silly manoeuvres! On DC courses I don't recall a singe incident to date.

Roads are not dangerous , impatient nobs in cars are though , only reason they TT on these roads is for a quick time .

That's part of it, but not the only reason.

 

[fossyant]

As an ex. TT'er, I'll go with Rob's opinions. Some of the Sporting courses have to be watched more carefully than on the A1. I mainly TT'ed on local 'J' courses and the occasional 'D' course, but lots of these are on single carriageway country lanes, all national speed limit. I've ridden the A1 and also the A55 in Chester, and it's pretty safe, you only need to watch entrance and exit lanes, but knowing the course, you know what to do.

 

[HLaB]

The majority of accidents IMO are down to driver fustration, a DC allows them to overtake before that fustration buids up so theoretically by that priso would be safer. I like riding in a group on a DC but I seldomly do on my own, however.