U-Turn - Opinion

[jefmcg]

If you report it to the police you might want to remove the S4a POA soundtrack first.

Um, where's that? According to the Public Order Act 1986

4Fear or provocation of violence.
(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, [..]
with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked.

I'm sure at no point in the video did the driver feel actually threatened. Or have I watched a different video?

 

[Glow worm]

Wow that is insane. Mind blown.

I know. It's been letting Volvo drivers off the hook for years over here.

Edit : I suspect they've long given up bothering to wire indicator lights to the steering columns on Volvos. Pointless waste of resources and all that.

 

[mjr]

Does this rule not lead to a lot of confusion, if no one is responsible to indicate their intentions ?

Anger and danger. No confusion: expect everyone to do the most surprising action possible at every opportunity and you'll only be pleasantly surprised.

What's really great is the number of people who believe it's actually wrong to signal if no other motor vehicle is nearby.

It's like the old saying: an Englishman's home is his castle and his car is his battering ram.

 

[jefmcg]

I never knew signalling wasn't legally required - I got my licence in a different jurisdiction, and didn't know the difference between must and should when I read the highway code - but at least that explains a lot.

So cyclists are warned never to get on the inside of turning vehicles, but the vehicles are not required to indicate that they are turning?!

And all those shared pavements/sidewalks with give way markings at every side street**: cyclists have to give way to vehicle turning across them but the drivers aren't obliged to indicate they are turning? I am certainly never using one of them again, unless there are no cross streets. I have always wondered at the difficulty of giving way when riding beside a busy road, having to look over you shoulder long enough to see any turning lights. Now I realise apparently you have to read the minds of all drivers approaching in the left lane.

**I chose that example because a cyclist was killed by a rubbish lorry coming from behind him, and the driver was absolved of all responsibility.

 

[KnackeredBike]

So cyclists are warned never to get on the inside of turning vehicles, but the vehicles are not required to indicate that they are turning?!

I never trust indicators any way ever since seeing someone nastily T-boned when someone was indicating left but carried straight on.

All indicators show is that the bulb is working. Don't commit to a move until you are sure where the driver is going. And in the OP's case if you're going to filter quickly past traffic pull wide out into the other lane like motorcycles do to at least give you a chance of an escape route.

 

[KnackeredBike]

The car didn't signal, so I'm guessing didn't bother looking to see you.

On the door-zone comments. How far out should the cyclist have been from the cars? It's a narrow lane. Any more over and I guess you'd risk conflict with cars coming in the opposite direction. I'd have taken that line myself, just a little slower as I might be in a blind spot or two.

When I filter if there is no oncoming traffic I effectively take primary in the opposite lane. Gives you more space if you need it plus IMO drivers are more likely to look there (with the motorcyclists) then immediately down their offside where you get lost in a long line of shiny cars.

Just watch out for motorcyclists behind you with the same idea.

 

[jonny jeez]

Sorry, i'm becoming a helmet cam vigilante.

this

 

[mjr]

So cyclists are warned never to get on the inside of turning vehicles, but the vehicles are not required to indicate that they are turning?!

Actually, http://highwaycode.info/rule/72 says not to ride up the inside of vehicles slowing down too and some general rule cautions against overtaking at junctions, so it's not only those signalling you should beware.

And all those shared pavements/sidewalks with give way markings at every side street**: cyclists have to give way to vehicle turning across them but the drivers aren't obliged to indicate they are turning? I am certainly never using one of them again, unless there are no cross streets. I have always wondered at the difficulty of giving way when riding beside a busy road, having to look over you shoulder long enough to see any turning lights. Now I realise apparently you have to read the minds of all drivers approaching in the left lane.

No, you just have to look for a gap big enough that it's unlikely someone's going to left hook you, same as you do on the carriageway to take primary position, except without the stress of actually needing to take primary or gamble on passing a side road in secondary. Looking for indicators is a widespread mistake and I suspect it's part of why roadside cycle tracks make little difference to safety, even though they mean you don't have to worry about emerging traffic because you just cross behind the first vehicle (unless the junction layout's screwy), so it seems a bit daft to blanket reject all of them. Of course, I know many footway paint & signs PnS conversions are taking the PnS and aren't worth using, but some are better, often with lower friction riding surfaces than horrid UK chippings.

Tight corners into side roads mean turning vehicles have to slow more and that can help you judge there's a gap, but not all have them, like that dodgy example.

All priority markings do is make it more likely turning traffic will stop and then almost any non-tiny gap is big enough, but if they've not yet stopped, you can't assume they will... if you cross and they don't stop, you may be more obviously in the right but better not to get knocked over IMO.

Brutish Cycling's "turning the corner" campaign calls for effectively making every cycle track crossing have priority by default. It won't be perfect but it'd be better than the current mish mash IMO.

 

[Pete Owens]

The car didn't signal, so I'm guessing didn't bother looking to see you.

You don't know that. The driver had started the manoeuvre before the start of the video - They had pulled to the left in preparation for the turn and were waiting for a gap in oncoming traffic - which is why the cyclist didn't see them until they were already turning, and the cyclist will at no point have been visible in the rear view mirror. They will almost certainly have checked behind at the start of the manoeuvre and may well have indicated at that point, but the signal was cancelled by the initiation of the turn.

As usual with these scenarios it is worth considering what your response would be if the vehicles were switched and we were watching dashcam footage from a driver overtaking a right turning cyclist. And while I always try to remember the "lifesaver" shoulder check when I turn right - I really do not want the highway code to be changed to give overtaking traffic priority as British Cycling is campaigning for.

 

[Pete Owens]

On the door-zone comments. How far out should the cyclist have been from the cars? It's a narrow lane. Any more over and I guess you'd risk conflict with cars coming in the opposite direction.

Which of course is the excuse drivers make for close passes.

 

[MontyVeda]

Which of course is the excuse drivers make for close passes.

which is why we take primary when necessary.

as for the post you reply to... if riding out of the door zone puts the rider in conflict with oncoming traffic, then it's not a good place to overtake.

 

[machew]

Looking at the theory test and it states

How to make a u-turn
A u-turn manoeuvre is where you turn 180 degrees on the road in order to travel in the other direction. There are a number of things to think about:

• Is there any traffic following me that might not be expecting me to stop and do a u-turn?
• Is it safest for me to pull over to the left, wait for a gap in traffic and then perform the u-turn?
• Is the road wide enough to complete the turn in one manoeuvre? (if not, it will become a three-point turn where you have to reverse as well)
• Is there any traffic coming towards me?
• If there is traffic coming towards me, can I complete the turn and accelerate back up-to-speed again without causing them to brake or take evasive action?
• If I'm waiting at a traffic light and want to do a u-turn, will doing the u-turn interfere with traffic either coming towards me or entering the junction from the right, or any pedestrians on the road.
• Is my vehicle capable of doing a u-turn without causing issues? This is mostly a problem if you are towing a trailer and it ends up having to be a three-point turn because you misjudged the turning circle of the vehicle
• Is it safer to turn into a side street and then do a three-point turn?

The safest way is to pull over to the left of the road by indicating left. While you are stopped on the left, indicate right, wait for a gap in both traffic directions and make the manoeuvre.

Pay special attention to cyclists approaching - ensure you look over your shoulder, not just in your mirror.

 

[400bhp]

That's a classic queue u-turn.

The u-turn will be done, generally without thinking, because the main reason is to get out of the queue and justify that going a different way will be faster.

You'll often find the driver (by selection) are the types that drive around faster.

Pretty hard to judge as they are often done instantaneously. As a cyclist you just have to give yourself as best chance you can by being alert.

Interestingly, this sometimes forms part the reason why i cycle down the inside on roads where I see this behaviour occurring.

 

[hennbell]

Yes the cyclist was going a bit fast, but he was in control, exhibited by the fact he avoided the turning car.
The driver made a turn without indication or paying attention, in my mind, the driver is at fault.

As for swearing after the fact although I am fully aware it does not make the situation better I understand why he did it.