UK mulls plain cigarette packs to cut smoking

[Rickshaw Phil]

I'd dispute it only being crap pubs that are closing. Two recent victims locally have been the Dolphin in Shrewsbury which had its own brewery attached and the Bottle and Glass at Picklescott which was a really nice pub for food.

 

[zimzum42]

to be fair...the way that pubs are owned, let, and supplied has a bit to do with it.

True - Badly run applies as much to managing companies as it does to landlords. My local has a great landlord but a terrible managing company.

Phil - Remember, what you think of as a great pub may well be a crap pub - if few other people agree with you that it's a great pub, then chances are it will go down. I'm sure the few people who used to frequent the pub at the end of my road thought it was great, but no one else did, so it went bust...

 

[Theseus]

I'm not sure which is stronger, the cravings I get for chocolate and other similar sweet stuff, or the craving I get for a ciggy!!!

Better start building your stockpiles of chocolate, a world shortage is loomingaccording to scientists.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Phil - Remember, what you think of as a great pub may well be a crap pub - if few other people agree with you that it's a great pub, then chances are it will go down. I'm sure the few people who used to frequent the pub at the end of my road thought it was great, but no one else did, so it went bust...

Hmmm, condescending. However I love the sweeping generalization, we should use that all the time: Why did the banks fail? Because they were crap! Why is there a water shortage. Because the water companies are crap!

Brilliant, the country would never need to spend money on another inquiry.

 

[rollinstok]

what evidence is there to suggest that the smoking ban is responsible for pubs closing? Do we need the pubs? I very rarely go to pubs - should I be concerned that they're closing? If people are drinking in all night bars then that suggests that the price of alcohol is not prohibitive.

Prior to smoking ban.. 7 pubs per week were closing
Post the smoking ban.. 30 pubs per week are closing
We dont need the pubs and you shouldnt be concerned about them closing, it would be lovely to live in a sterile robotic society where everyone is numb, servile and putty in the hands of the dictat.
The government allows all night drinking and I for one think its no concern of yours what youngsters do with their hard earned pittance.. so what if they blow it on a good night out, god knows they dont have much to look forward to.

 

[zimzum42]

Hmmm, condescending. However I love the sweeping generalization, we should use that all the time: Why did the banks fail? Because they were crap! Why is there a water shortage. Because the water companies are crap!

Brilliant, the country would never need to spend money on another inquiry.

Of course it's a generalization, I just hold that it's a more accurate one than claiming they are closing from the smoking ban. Crap pubs are crap for any number of reasons, but of all the interviews I have conducted with pub landlords over the past couple of years, not one of them has claimed that the smoking ban has cost them at all. They are far more pissed off with their management companies, suppliers, tax hikes, supermarket cheap booze.

(And yes, I know it sounds odd that I go around interviewing pub landlords, but it's part of my job as a consultant, and we have a few of the big brewers as clients...)

 

[dellzeqq]

Prior to smoking ban.. 7 pubs per week were closing
Post the smoking ban.. 30 pubs per week are closing
We dont need the pubs and you shouldnt be concerned about them closing, it would be lovely to live in a sterile robotic society where everyone is numb, servile and putty in the hands of the dictat.
The government allows all night drinking and I for one think its no concern of yours what youngsters do with their hard earned pittance.. so what if they blow it on a good night out, god knows they dont have much to look forward to.

chin up, old chap. Mine's a prosecco!

 

[dellzeqq]

Of course it's a generalization, I just hold that it's a more accurate one than claiming they are closing from the smoking ban. Crap pubs are crap for any number of reasons, but of all the interviews I have conducted with pub landlords over the past couple of years, not one of them has claimed that the smoking ban has cost them at all. They are far more pissed off with their management companies, suppliers, tax hikes, supermarket cheap booze.

(And yes, I know it sounds odd that I go around interviewing pub landlords, but it's part of my job as a consultant, and we have a few of the big brewers as clients...)

I must say, this sounds like a decent gig.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Of course it's a generalization, I just hold that it's a more accurate one than claiming they are closing from the smoking ban. Crap pubs are crap for any number of reasons, but of all the interviews I have conducted with pub landlords over the past couple of years, not one of them has claimed that the smoking ban has cost them at all. They are far more pissed off with

(And yes, I know it sounds odd that I go around interviewing pub landlords, but it's part of my job as a consultant, and we have a few of the big brewers as clients...)

So it's not because they are crap at all it is because of: "their management companies, suppliers, tax hikes, supermarket cheap booze.".

Your words not mine.

I personally never claimed the cause was the smoking ban per se. My objection was because of your insistance that they failed simply because they were crap.

 

[benb]

Prior to smoking ban.. 7 pubs per week were closing
Post the smoking ban.. 30 pubs per week are closing
We dont need the pubs and you shouldnt be concerned about them closing, it would be lovely to live in a sterile robotic society where everyone is numb, servile and putty in the hands of the dictat.
The government allows all night drinking and I for one think its no concern of yours what youngsters do with their hard earned pittance.. so what if they blow it on a good night out, god knows they dont have much to look forward to.

Got a link to that evidence please?

 

[User169]

Got a link to that evidence please?

Don't think the numbers as such are especially controversial. The extent to which the smoking ban is responsible is more debatable.

 

[zimzum42]

So it's not because they are crap at all it is because of: "their management companies, suppliers, tax hikes, supermarket cheap booze.".

Your words not mine.

I personally never claimed the cause was the smoking ban per se. My objection was because of your insistance that they failed simply because they were crap.

OK, there's a few different things going on here - sorry for not having the desire to write an academic piece on it.

In my experience:

A number of factors affect pubs. They are listed above. The smoking ban, relative to these other factors, is insignificant.

Aside from those factors, a significant driver for the closing of pubs is the fact that many, many pubs are simply crap. They have not moved with the times and make no effort to add value or create an experience. Consumers do not go to a pub simply to buy a drink. They pay extra for an experience. Many pubs fail to do anything other than provide a roof and some alcohol in a glass. These pubs will close. However much one likes any pub, unless it is doing something to attract customers, it will fail. Staying the same and not changing works for one or two pubs every now and then, after all, for some people, going to an old-fashioned old man's pub is an experience. But it's not sutainable, certainly not compared to pubs which invest time and money in creating experiences, but it a big investment in becoming a gastro pub or a recognized music venue, or simply putting on a quiz night or installing a juke box or something.

If you want I could send you a report we wrote for one of the leading brewers about how to save the pub, but it's about 160 PPT slides, so you might get bored...

 

[benb]

Don't think the numbers as such are especially controversial. The extent to which the smoking ban is responsible is more debatable.

I'd still like to see the evidence for myself.

 

[dellzeqq]

 

[dellzeqq]