Unwinding spokes

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User6179

Guest
First few rides on my new open pro rims with 105 hubs and DB spokes , have had to tighten up NDS spokes 3 or 4 times now as they keep going loose .

There are 36 spoke wheels and the tension is very low on NDS side compared with other wheels I have to the point where if I try to get what I feel is enough tension in them the wheel pulls to far over to the frame on that side, had this problem with most wheels rear wheels in the past but usually over 1000s of miles not every 20 miles .

Any help would be appreciated on a remedy ,I am thinking Loctite but don't want to have future problems with truing up the wheel !?
 

Smokin Joe

Legendary Member
If the spokes keep coming loose the wheel has been built with too low a tension (The NDS will always have less tension than the drive side). Either tighten the lot yourself or if you are not confident find a decent wheel builder to do it.
 
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User6179

Guest
If the spokes keep coming loose the wheel has been built with too low a tension (The NDS will always have less tension than the drive side). Either tighten the lot yourself or if you are not confident find a decent wheel builder to do it.
I can do it myself but the Drive side is as tight as they can go , I nearly rounded a nipple trying to tighten DS up so not an option , I keep truing the wheel up with the just the NDS spokes but they just keep loosening , can actually hear them unwinding when I cycle , to get them tight so they don't come loose would pull the wheel to far over to NDS of the bike , I have did this on other wheels but the clearance on my good bike with 25c tyres is only a few mills so am kind of stuck , only thing I can think of is Loctite or similar .
 

S.Giles

Guest
Hello Eddy. What do you hear when the spokes loosen? If it's a metallic noise, would that not suggest that there is some residual twist in the spokes (that should have been relieved)? Just a thought.

There is a kind of Loctite that is specifically made for this type of job (Loctite 222). It's recommended by Roger Musson, and It shouldn't cause a problem if the nipple ever needs to be adjusted. Don't use anything stronger than that, though.

Edit: Could it be that you've run out of thread on the drive side?
 
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User6179

Guest
Hello Eddy. What do you hear when the spokes loosen? If it's a metallic noise, would that not suggest that there is some residual twist in the spokes (that should have been relieved)? Just a thought.

There is a kind of Loctite that is made for just this kind of job (Loctite 222). It's the type recommended by Roger Musson. Don't use anything stronger than that.
Yes metallic noise, when I got the wheels I relieved the tension on them and they went out of true before I even used them , maybe I need to do it again , thought the first couple of hundred miles would get rid of any further unwinding but they keep going loose .

Loctite222, just googled it , Thanks , think I will order some , cant do any harm , I should of marked the spokes as they came loose to see if it was different ones each time.

When I tighten them up I always go a half turn to far and then a half turn back to unwind the spoke.
 
OP
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User6179

Guest
Hello Eddy. What do you hear when the spokes loosen? If it's a metallic noise, would that not suggest that there is some residual twist in the spokes (that should have been relieved)? Just a thought.

There is a kind of Loctite that is specifically made for this type of job (Loctite 222). It's recommended by Roger Musson, and It shouldn't cause a problem if the nipple ever needs to be adjusted. Don't use anything stronger than that, though.

Edit: Could it be that you've run out of thread on the drive side?
Never considered running out of thread on DS but is possible , the wheels are factory built in Germany so not a great build but cost less than to buy the parts in UK and you still have the build costs on top so they are still a bargain I think.

Just bought the Loctite, under a tenner of Ebay delivered , Thanks.
 
OP
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User6179

Guest
I'd have to pop the tyre off and see if the spokes were sticking out of the top of the nipples if it were me.

I saw the SLF's a long time ago, BTW. I think it was 1978 (ouch!).
Now I am going to have to take the tyre off and have a look as you have planted the seed :smile:

Last saw SLF in 2012 and if anything they are getting louder ,my ears are still recovering , I wondered why some folk had took ear plugs to a gig at the time.
 
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User6179

Guest
Drive side are right at the top of the nipple but not through it and NDS have about 2-3mm till they hit the top , just went round the wheel relieving the tension and there was no unwinding of the spokes this time .
 
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S.Giles

Guest
Drive side are right at the top of the nipple but not through it and NDS have about 2-3mm till they hit the top , just when round the wheel relieving the tension and there was no unwinding of the spokes this time .
I don't think you mentioned what brand the spokes are. I've just tried assembling a loose Sapim Race spoke to a nipple, and it will stick out of the top of the nipple by 0.6mm when the thread is used-up. On that basis, I'd say yours are somewhat close.

Loctite 222 is good to have, but you really shouldn't need it.
 
OP
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User6179

Guest
I don't think you mentioned what brand the spokes are. I've just tried assembling a loose Sapim Race spoke to a nipple, and it will stick out of the top of the nipple by 0.6mm when the thread is used-up. On that basis, I'd say yours are somewhat close.

Loctite 222 is good to have, but you really shouldn't need it.
Dt Swiss competition spokes , , not sure which nipples are used but they are a good 5mm long inside the wheel so i think you would need to be well out with spoke length to have them protrude , saying that the DS are nearly level with the top of the nipple.
 

S.Giles

Guest
...saying that the DS are nearly level with the top of the nipple.
If that's really the top of the nipple (rather than down inside the slot), then the thread may have run-out. I've only used Sapim spokes, so I can't say (Sapims would have about one more turn left in them at that point).

I suppose you could completely undo one of the nipples, remove the spoke from the rim (not the hub), and screw the nipple on to see how far it goes. This may be more than you want to do, though. Of course, if it were me... :-)
 
OP
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User6179

Guest
If that's really the top of the nipple (rather than down inside the slot), then the thread may have run-out. I've only used Sapim spokes, so I can't say (Sapims would have about one more turn left in them at that point).

I suppose you could completely undo one of the nipples, remove the spoke from the rim (not the hub), and screw the nipple on to see how far it goes. This may be more than you want to do, though. Of course, if it were me... :-)
Ahhh:smile:, Just put everything back together, I have cheated slightly ,I put a bit more tension in NDS and to counter the tyre being to near the frame I put a 2mm washer on the axle on the NDS , see how this goes then when I get the Loctite I will relieve the tension slightly and check if the DS spokes are maxed out on the nipples.

Thanks for the help , much appreciated :okay:
 
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