Very poor bus driving

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OP
OP
M

magnatom

Guest
Ok. Lets clear a few things up once and for all.

The cyclist was FULLY aware of the bus behind him. He was doing what I would do in that situation and was looking around every few seconds to:

a) see what the bus was doing and
:biggrin: try to encourage the bus to pull back

My description of 2-3 meters was in fact quite generous. In fact the bus may have been more like 1-2 metres behind at one point and we were traveling at about 15-18mph. I know that in these sorts of incidents it is easy to exaggerate how close the bus was, so I am erring on the side of caution. Lee, what is the stopping distance of a 25 seater bus at this sort of speed. Quote me this and then justify your comments about 2-3m being far enough.

When I asked the driver, why did he hit his horn, he did not reply : to let the cyclist know I was there. His reply (and I have this recorded) was:

How much room did he want?

That to me suggests VERY strongly that the driver hit his horn out of frustration and aggression. I can also confirm (as I was there) that this is exactly how it seemed at the time.

Hackers, I am really sorry if you take offence at what I say. None is ever meant (although you often take things personally, when that is not the intent.). However, I will not tip toe around to keep you happy. Cycling in the door zone is dangerous. People get killed, as my bosses friend did, who apparently was a very experienced cyclist.

This particular stretch is a very busy road where space is tight. In the attached aerial picture, the road is actually quiet with much fewer parked cars than normal. When busy the cars are nose to tail all the way along this road (the incident happened further along away from the bus stops). You can see that there is little space when traffic is going both ways.

Also as there are often so many parked cars, to cycle along here, constantly looking to see if there is anyone in each car would be impossible and downright dangerous. So Hackers, if you think this is a reasonable way to cycle, then fair enough, but I certainly will never encourage anyone else to cycle like that.

As for doing the right thing by talking to the driver, yes I think I did do the right thing. However, I should have said something earlier when he was tailgating the cyclist. However, I can now use this incident as an opportunity to put pressure on Arriva to take this seriously and to maybe take part in some sort of campaign. I'll be CCing the e-mail I send to Arriva to a reporter at the Evening Times (who has asked me to keep him informed of any developments since the First Bus story). That might help get things moving.....
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
Some buses do a sort of "mini-toot", not a full on "beeeeep" when they're behind you. I don't have a problem with that as long as they're not too close.
 

wafflycat

New Member
BentMikey said:
And you were wondering why I didn't want you driving your HGV anywhere near me? I think the above is shocking! Even 6-7m as stated in a later post as you're backing away from your foot in mouth moment is too close at anything more than 10mph.

I'm starting to think that dear lee simply enjoys winding up threads, being a sort of devil's advocate, as it can't be possible that he's as bad a driver (or cyclist) as he paints, can it?
 
OP
OP
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magnatom

Guest
Lee,

You have forgot to answer this point...

Lee, what is the stopping distance of a 25 seater bus at this sort of speed. Quote me this and then justify your comments about 2-3m being far enough.
 

Sh4rkyBloke

Jaffa Cake monster
Location
Manchester, UK
User3143 said:
I think they do regardless of change of direction or speed and I always like to know what is behind because at some point they are going to overtake me, you are the arse not me.
I think I also said that "Granted, it is a good idea to be aware of your surroundings" but my point was that there's no absolute need for the cyclist to know what's behind him if he's simply cycling safely in a straight line - the responsiblity of any overtaking is with the person doing the overtaking (i.e. the bus/truck), not for the cyclist to change how they are riding simply because someone is behind them trying to get past.

It's very simple.

Really it is.
 
OP
OP
M

magnatom

Guest
User3143 said:
Go and look it up yourself Mag, do you need me to everything!?!


OK then. I can't find a figure for a 25 seater bus. However, a car at 20mph has a stoping distance of about 12m. I think it is safe to assume that the bus would have a longer stopping distance, especially if it has air brakes (which I believe can add 0.5 seconds to reaction time. So I think it is very reasonable to assume that 17m is in the right ball park, agreed?

Now can you please explain how this fits with your comments that 2-3m is enough distance to drive behind a cyclist at these sorts of speeds?
 

4F

Active member of Helmets Are Sh*t Lobby
Location
Suffolk.
magnatom said:
OK then. I can't find a figure for a 25 seater bus. However, a car at 20mph has a stoping distance of about 12m. I think it is safe to assume that the bus would have a longer stopping distance, especially if it has air brakes (which I believe can add 0.5 seconds to reaction time. So I think it is very reasonable to assume that 17m is in the right ball park, agreed?

Now can you please explain how this fits with your comments that 2-3m is enough distance to drive behind a cyclist at these sorts of speeds?

Mags, he cannot as he is talking our of his harris

Sharky summed it up earlier, see my new sig ;)
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
User3143 said:
Mag you said that the cyclist was not going 20mph yet you post a distance for a vehicle doing 20mph?

You have to look at at the position of the cyclist in relation to the front of the bus to realise that 2-3m is enough.

See this page:

http://www.hintsandthings.co.uk/garage/stopmph.htm

The maths ain't too hard.

At 10mph the overall stopping distance for a car would therefore be 15 feet (or about 5m)

At 5mph the overall stopping distance for a car would be 6' 3"

Therefore the only speed at which such incredibly close proximitiy to the bike in front is appropriate is slower than 5mph. Or, in other words, a sedate walking pace. If the cyclist is going faster than that and your vehicle has the same braking capacity as a car, then you're too close.

2-3m being enough room... Inconcievable.
 
OP
OP
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magnatom

Guest
User3143 said:
Mag you said that the cyclist was not going 20mph yet you post a distance for a vehicle doing 20mph?

You have to look at at the position of the cyclist in relation to the front of the bus to realise that 2-3m is enough.


I posted this because 20mph is one of the generally quoted speeds. OK lets be generous to the bus driver here then. In post 41 I suggested that the cyclists speed would be 15-18mph. Lets assume 15mph (although it was probably towards the 18mph as he was under pressure from the bus)

For a car using an online calculator I get a stopping distance under ideal conditions of about 8 metres. For a bus I think it would be safe to assume that 10m would be a conservative estimate.

So assuming this, how does this equate with your comments that 2-3m is enough?

and

what the hell does this mean
You have to look at at the position of the cyclist in relation to the front of the bus to realise that 2-3m is enough

;)
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
magnatom said:
I posted this because 20mph is one of the generally quoted speeds. OK lets be generous to the bus driver here then. In post 41 I suggested that the cyclists speed would be 15-18mph.

My mental arithmetic says 26' 3" for 15mph.
 

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
magnatom said:
Yup, about 8 metres in real money.;)

I'm happy in either, but it gives me pains in the temples working from mph to metres and back again; I like imperial, I like metric, I cannot be doing with going back and forth from one to the other :smile:
 
OP
OP
M

magnatom

Guest
Cab said:
I'm happy in either, but it gives me pains in the temples working from mph to metres and back again; I like imperial, I like metric, I cannot be doing with going back and forth from one to the other :smile:


...and I can't be bothered doing any calculations at all. If I can find an oline calculator I'll use it. Some physicist I am....;)
 
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