Was I in the wrong?
- Thread starter gaz
- Start date
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OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
I'm not forcing you to watch my videos, and they are not all there to entertain you. I do use them to point out various things to the council such as traffic light phasing which makes no sense.
It's easy to say after watching the video that he is no where near me, but if someone passes you with there indicator on and then starts turning across you. What are you going to do?
hackbike 666
Guest
I did that the other day and think I was well justified to do so.
Gaz it's a bit of give and take out there....you can't get upset over everything...
Actually, all credit to gaz for posting it. he posted it know that there was a reasonable chance that others would say he was in the wrong. I think it is important that helmet camera posters are willing to post video where the fault is uncertain. It demonstrates a willingness to be questions and perhaps admit fault (although he has admitted nothing yet! 
)
I stand by what I said earlier, 50/50. Yes the driver could probably have pulled behind, yes gaz could have allowed him in.
Do you admit gaz, even if just from a defensive cycling point of view, your cycling wasn't perfect here?
)I stand by what I said earlier, 50/50. Yes the driver could probably have pulled behind, yes gaz could have allowed him in.
Do you admit gaz, even if just from a defensive cycling point of view, your cycling wasn't perfect here?
ComedyPilot
Secret Lemonade Drinker
- Location
- The Kingdom of Yorkshire
Devil's advocate, isn't it the responsibility of the vehicle being overtaken to drop back/allow the overtaking vehicle room to complete the move?
Rule 168:
168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
Then again WVM should also have adhered to rule 162 + 163:
162
Before overtaking you should make sure
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
Rule 168:
168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
Then again WVM should also have adhered to rule 162 + 163:
162
Before overtaking you should make sure
- the road is sufficiently clear ahead
- road users are not beginning to overtake you
- there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
- not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake
- use your mirrors, signal when it is safe to do so, take a quick sideways glance if necessary into the blind spot area and then start to move out
- not assume that you can simply follow a vehicle ahead which is overtaking; there may only be enough room for one vehicle
- move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
I wouldn't say I was the perfect cyclist. I do make mistakes.Actually, all credit to gaz for posting it. he posted it know that there was a reasonable chance that others would say he was in the wrong. I think it is important that helmet camera posters are willing to post video where the fault is uncertain. It demonstrates a willingness to be questions and perhaps admit fault (although he has admitted nothing yet!
I stand by what I said earlier, 50/50. Yes the driver could probably have pulled behind, yes gaz could have allowed him in.
Do you admit gaz, even if just from a defensive cycling point of view, your cycling wasn't perfect here?
I posted this video to find what opinion most people had. It seems 50/50 is it, and I don't disagree with that and if this sort of situation arises again, then i would treat it differently.
I think it's unfair to say I should have let him in, I didn't have much chance to react to his indicator but the first thing I did was pull on my brakes and slow down, not easy to see due to wide angle lens and head movement.
What I should have done is looked more and planned ahead, and I have no problem with admitting that.
As I've said many times before, one of the main reasons I got a camera, was so I could learn from the advise of others.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
Funnily enough I had almost this exact same situation this weekend. Surprise surprise, the driver (of a coach) couldn't be arsed to pull in behind a bloody bicycle and instead overtook and squeezed me into the bus stop, stopping and pulling left across my front. It's nothing more than lazy and rubbish driving, there was no need to push me out of the way as he could easily have fitted in behind me. Either he didn't notice the ambulance, or he did and didn't give a toss about a bicycle.
Sorry, I wouldn't call one 50:50. IMO, Gaz, you made no effort to give the van room and the police car was slowed up because of that. For the van to have pulled in behind you, you would have had to have undertaken him, which wouldn't be a clever thing to do with a siren around.
I'd have waved thanks to him for leaving any room, considering you were in his blind spot. You've alienated a WVM there, IMO, for no good reason.
I'd have waved thanks to him for leaving any room, considering you were in his blind spot. You've alienated a WVM there, IMO, for no good reason.
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
It's a tough one to call without seeing a rear cam footage but if the van driver is where I think he is & had he been paying attention to his mirrors he could have easily slid into the gap behind you. If he was further forwards then it'd been harder for him. Personally I would have pulled into the mouth of the road on your left come to a halt across the junction before continuing along.
I think the consensus is, blues-and-twos sirens make many drivers behave unpredictably and erratically. I've seen it happen, and it's probably happened to me. So beware! No good being in the right but ending up in the ambulance yourself!
I sometimes wonder whether it's something to to with the sweeping sound mostly used nowadays - in contrast to the old two-tone siren - with its obvious doppler effect - which was in use when I was young (before that, I can still just remember police cars with bells).
It's just that with the modern sound it's not always easy to assess its direction and speed of approach. Anyone else think that?
Personally I would like to see a return to the old two-tone.
I sometimes wonder whether it's something to to with the sweeping sound mostly used nowadays - in contrast to the old two-tone siren - with its obvious doppler effect - which was in use when I was young (before that, I can still just remember police cars with bells).
It's just that with the modern sound it's not always easy to assess its direction and speed of approach. Anyone else think that?
Personally I would like to see a return to the old two-tone.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
We don't know what was going on behind, so there might not have been a space for the van driver to slot into.
I'd say the van driver behaved reasonably - allowed the police car past while also leaving you a safe space. I agree it can be hard to hear the direction of a siren, but when you hear one getting close and don't have good vision all around, it's reasonable to pull right in to be sure you're not in the way.
I'd say the van driver behaved reasonably - allowed the police car past while also leaving you a safe space. I agree it can be hard to hear the direction of a siren, but when you hear one getting close and don't have good vision all around, it's reasonable to pull right in to be sure you're not in the way.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
The alternating waa-waa and white noise sounds used on some emergency services vehicles seems to work well. I don't know why they haven't rolled that out more widely.
OP
OP
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
New video with rear view[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsCDRyhBWiE[/media]
And now? To me it looks like he could have given me more time, if he had pulled in front and indicated i would have pulled back and let him in, but i was given no time to react, especially as i know a pot hole is coming up that i want to avoid, and it spans a vast majority of the lane.
This is of course, a month after this happened
[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsufxpay0S8[/media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsCDRyhBWiE[/media]
And now? To me it looks like he could have given me more time, if he had pulled in front and indicated i would have pulled back and let him in, but i was given no time to react, especially as i know a pot hole is coming up that i want to avoid, and it spans a vast majority of the lane.
This is of course, a month after this happened
[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsufxpay0S8[/media]
