We all fail sometimes, don't sweat it :)

[dude7691]

I have mild asthma. I've managed to trigger a coughing fit in a few races - but I'm 77 kg, and was pushing 280W for 15 minutes to do that!

On the trainer, I've pulled off 290W for 50 minutes, climbing Alpe du Zwift, which was pushing at the edge of my asthma, but I managed to avoid it. I find I can get a feel for that, and keep the effort just under exploding.

As brutal as the condition is it's nice to know someone understands that feeling of always being on the ragged edge of your lung capability. That's damn impressive by the way, 3.63W/kg for 15 minutes is well, a dream for me at the moment, hoping it won't stay that way forever It is literally just that fine balance, and such a frustrating one. Today about 3 miles in I got the first signs, but was so immersed in the TT I just got frustrated and tried to push through it. 1.3 Miles later I'm there on the side of the road coughing up god knows what. I'm gonna see if I can get some stronger meds, I'm on light corticosteroids at the moment, but they don't seem to be doing enough. I know it's not aerobic fitness because it changes so drastically with temperature, dust levels and so many other triggers!

 

[dude7691]

You are stressing over numbers too much, especially for 35 minute 10. As for weight etc, should be an advantage. The Manchester District Best All rounder in the 90's was in my club then Manchester Wheelers. We used to call him sparrow legs. He can't have been much more than 50kg's wet through, and as thin as a rake. It was pointless trying to draft him. Yet, he was seriously quick in TT's.

I also know plenty of asthmatic cyclists - don't let it hold you back, - you'll soon learn how to prepare and take your meds when needed.

I get that, I've always just been the type of guy who enjoys numerical gains and so forth. I know a 35 min 10 is nothing to some people, when an average club time would be comfortably under 30 (with the right gear and aero position of course). For me though, being able to do just 35, that would be a massive achievement. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one at this weight

From what I've seen the difference between power required on flats is very low as you increase weight, but naturally the whole reason W/kg exists is because heavier riders are assumed to have higher absolute power output, which is what matters on the flat. I understand my weight is a huge, huge advantage on the climbs, and I'm fully aware that's where my strengths lie, it's just the case of becoming an all round rider. The other reason of course is because I stand up for almost all my climbs, because that allows my diaphragm to work better and stops my lungs grinding me to a halt, even if it is at an efficiency cost (minimized because I'm so light).

 

[Solocle]

As brutal as the condition is it's nice to know someone understands that feeling of always being on the ragged edge of your lung capability. That's damn impressive by the way, 3.63W/kg for 15 minutes is well, a dream for me at the moment, hoping it won't stay that way forever It is literally just that fine balance, and such a frustrating one. Today about 3 miles in I got the first signs, but was so immersed in the TT I just got frustrated and tried to push through it. 1.3 Miles later I'm there on the side of the road coughing up god knows what. I'm gonna see if I can get some stronger meds, I'm on light corticosteroids at the moment, but they don't seem to be doing enough. I know it's not aerobic fitness because it changes so drastically with temperature, dust levels and so many other triggers!

There did seem to be a correlation between how cold the day was, and how much power I could put out in a race, which might be why I could push 3.75 W/kg for 51 minutes on the Kickr.

It's worth noting that it wasn't too long before that I did this set of intervals, and was really pushing at the edge:

I needed to vary the cadence to just keep it within what my cardiovascular system could keep up with! So it might be worth training on the edge for a fair bit of time, as it seems to have pushed the threshold back for me.

It does help that when I overcook it, it's "only" a nasty coughing fit, though.

 

[dude7691]

There did seem to be a correlation between how cold the day was, and how much power I could put out in a race, which might be why I could push 3.75 W/kg for 51 minutes on the Kickr.
View attachment 537351
It's worth noting that it wasn't too long before that I did this set of intervals, and was really pushing at the edge:
View attachment 537350
I needed to vary the cadence to just keep it within what my cardiovascular system could keep up with! So it might be worth training on the edge for a fair bit of time, as it seems to have pushed the threshold back for me.

It does help that when I overcook it, it's "only" a nasty coughing fit, though.

Those intervals look nuts to me Your recovery speeds are literally my threshold power xD I really do agree with that. What I found helped just a bit was spinning a lower cadence on the flat, like 75-80RPM as opposed to 90+ I try and keep up. The problem is my brain screams "efficiency! efficiency!" when I delve into that territory, but it was something that stopped me having attacks during interval training, so maybe I need to apply that more to my overall riding, as much as I do prefer spinning. I've also decided, to do a 10 mile TT at the same speed on a different route this time, which starts and ends at my house, with just 1 turn around reason being that if I do get stuck, I'm not miles from home and I can pass by if I need to grab my meds, as opposed to today where if I'd made it, I faced a 14 mile ride home on the backroads, loaded with hills and so forth. Also, it's a safer route from traffic but still free from too many corners so I can do it when the temp is warmer which will help massively. I don't know about you but maybe I am overdoing it just slightly as well, I've gone from basically zero fitness (11mph averages, and only then because I knew technique due to cycling before). To 16-17mph rides in just 2 months, do you think I've pushed it a bit too much? Especially wearing the gear I do, without drop bars.

I don't mean to keep mentioning the drop bars, but because of the height of my stem (not slammed, and I'm doing yoga to improve back flexibility for now), trying to keep my elbows bent with nothing solid to grip onto except flat bars is just a recipe for disaster as I'm putting most of the weight through my forearms rather than my shoulders, which are nowhere close to strong enough to hold my upper body for more than 30seconds to a minute. Means I'm sat upright or fairly close to it even though I know and feel I need to get lower. Basically I'm kicking myself for not getting a drop bar bike when I bought this one 2 years ago! It was only £50 more but coming from a mountain bike background I fell for the whole "drop bars are intimidating if you're a MTB rider" marketing crap and now here I am

 

[Fab Foodie]

You are stressing over numbers too much, especially for 35 minute 10. As for weight etc, should be an advantage. The Manchester District Best All rounder in the 90's was in my club then Manchester Wheelers. We used to call him sparrow legs. He can't have been much more than 50kg's wet through, and as thin as a rake. It was pointless trying to draft him. Yet, he was seriously quick in TT's.

I also know plenty of asthmatic cyclists - don't let it hold you back, - you'll soon learn how to prepare and take your meds when needed.

It is indeed! Looking at a power calculator, in order to do 20mph on flat ground, no wind you need to put out 213W, which sounds great until you realise that's 4W/kg for me! That is sat on the tops mind, in the drops it says you would only need 167W, so I understand I'm effectively limiting myself in that way. Anyway, regarding weight for a 63kg rider to do 20mph in the same conditions you need 217W, which is just a 2% increase for a 20% increase in mass, and therefore possibly, a 10-15% increase in power output. This translates to 3.45W/kg for that rider, so fitness wise they're not working as hard. It really depends how much of that mass went to lean muscle and fat. On the hills of course you need to put out more power to haul the bulk but you also have more power to do it with, works out about even.

Do you happen to know how much of a difference lycra makes vs baggies? I think a wind tunnel test it was something like 10% difference, which is of course a huge difference, and I've heard some people say it makes little difference to their speed and more their comfort, which isn't currently an issue for me.

Definitely going to start using my second ring more. It's just lack of confidence I think, and having a bad habit of having a "set and forget" chain ring rather than actually use them as they're meant to be, and of course a straighter chain line as you said can save a few watts.

I agree regarding racing. I'm definitely going to try, because in the next 5 years no one knows what will happen. I'm 20 years old now, and peak cyclist age if I recall physiologically is 27-28. I know lots of older people win races, because they have experience. For me though, my lungs are the major factor so it's all about whether they improve or not. Even if I fail, at least I'd be a damn fast commuter!

Sounds good to me, 10 mins of easy spinning activates the legs for sure. I did notice today my legs felt fresher of course after the shorter warmup I did, but I didn't really push my lungs too hard which was perhaps a mistake in hindsight.

Haha thank you! I've done a 100k before but that was over a year ago so I don't count it anymore, and it was only at 12mph because I was far less fit then. Nowadays I could probably go faster, it's just finding the time and motivation to go out and do that distance, I've become a bigger fan of shorter rides more frequently nowadays.

There’s definately a benefit to lycra vs baggies, how much I don’t know.
Just read a later post of yours re drop bars - You could always fit aero/TT bars to a flat bar bike....

 

[fossyant]

I think you need a bike fit, as you just hold the bars, don't grip them, and certainly not put weight on them. Even on my MTB I just hold the bars, unless I'm on something very rough or downhill where you hang on. On the road bike, you should be just resting the hands on the bars.

You are also expecting too much in two months you say you've been riding. It can take years to improve technique. You've quickly increased fitness, but the rest takes longer.

 

[dude7691]

There’s definately a benefit to lycra vs baggies, how much I don’t know.
Just read a later post of yours re drop bars - You could always fit aero/TT bars to a flat bar bike....

Just had a look online and figures range anywhere from 3% for MTB riders all the way up to the 10% for skinsuits on tracks vs baggies at higher speeds. For me I would be guessing, it's maybe a 4-5% saving. Not quite worth me investing in yet, at least not till my figure is better

Definitely a good idea, my only concern being the roads I generally ride on have potholes, gusty winds and so forth so I'd be potentially risking injury if I hit one, as I have no access to the brakes and steering becomes more difficult. If I start to do this more regularly though, it will be a no brainer to get some, as a drops conversion would cost hundreds.

 

[dude7691]

I think you need a bike fit, as you just hold the bars, don't grip them, and certainly not put weight on them. Even on my MTB I just hold the bars, unless I'm on something very rough or downhill where you hang on. On the road bike, you should be just resting the hands on the bars.

You are also expecting too much in two months you say you've been riding. It can take years to improve technique. You've quickly increased fitness, but the rest takes longer.

Generally I'm fine at slightly slower speeds, but I think at higher speeds when I'm really going for it I get tense and grip them unnecessarily. Thank you for that advice, I'll make a conscious effort to do that. It's those marginal things that probably aren't helping my performance, wasting energy sending blood to my hands and arm muscles when I don't need to. Because of my asthma everything is on such a tight and fine line, I can't get away with wasting energy I don't need to.

Regarding the bike fit, how much do these typically cost? At the moment my saddle is slightly lower than my stem which has all the spacers on it. Saddle height is where I've got my leg almost completely straight at 6 o clock, I have cages as opposed to clipless. I've got my saddle tilt perfect for me (2 degrees down) and my reach feels okay, but I could be completely wrong.

I rode for around 6 weeks last year, more focused on endurance, never got above 12.5-13mph averages and ticking over the miles was my idea of achieving (still is to an extent). Managed to get my distance up to 100k in that time. But I've become a lot more focused on speed simply because my regular commute (pre covid) is 12.5 miles each way. Doing 17mph vs 12.5mph obviously saves me like 15-20 minutes each way, big difference! Then if I can push my avg speeds higher in the future, then aloe and behold 17mph is no longer hard, it's a moderate effort as my body is adapted to more. Just like for me now, 15mph is a moderate effort whereas it used to be torture. And agreed, technique is learned and practiced as opposed to beginner gains which are acquired without much structure (although interval training has helped a tonne).

 

[Fab Foodie]

Just had a look online and figures range anywhere from 3% for MTB riders all the way up to the 10% for skinsuits on tracks vs baggies at higher speeds. For me I would be guessing, it's maybe a 4-5% saving. Not quite worth me investing in yet, at least not till my figure is better

Definitely a good idea, my only concern being the roads I generally ride on have potholes, gusty winds and so forth so I'd be potentially risking injury if I hit one, as I have no access to the brakes and steering becomes more difficult. If I start to do this more regularly though, it will be a no brainer to get some, as a drops conversion would cost hundreds.

Instead of a drops conversion, here is a half-way option. Add some tri bars and you would have an improved aero option and more hand positions. You could either keep your existing brake levers and position or invest in levers that go in the ends of the bulhorns (not expensive), though you might need to recable the brakes, but again waaaay cheaper than a drop bar conversion with very few drawbacks.

Occassionally I use tribars on my 'Audax' style bike for long solo rides, just to reduce overall effort especially of there will be a lot of headwinds...

 

[cyberknight]

reckon on 6 degrees on windchill at 20 mph

 

[dude7691]

There's a lot of rot written about "efficient" cadences with precious little evidence to support it. There's no reason for a cadence of 70 to be considered inefficient.

Let your body choose what feels best. You still have to do the same work whatever gear you choose, so as long as you don't select something ludicrous the cost will be the same. There's no magic bullet.

By listening to your brain and going against your body you may well be choosing a less efficient option.

Agree with all of that, I'll lower my cadence a bit to give my legs a better workout and let my lungs get fully into their stride before I start to spin, I find when fully warmed up (15 miles or so) my lungs are far less likely to give out on me

 

[dude7691]

Instead of a drops conversion, here is a half-way option. Add some tri bars and you would have an improved aero option and more hand positions. You could either keep your existing brake levers and position or invest in levers that go in the ends of the bulhorns (not expensive), though you might need to recable the brakes, but again waaaay cheaper than a drop bar conversion with very few drawbacks.

Occassionally I use tribars on my 'Audax' style bike for long solo rides, just to reduce overall effort especially of there will be a lot of headwinds...
View attachment 537394

Definitely a great idea! I will look into getting that sorted once I've become a bit more flexible, and concur on the headwinds. As soon as there's any sort of headwind my averages are back down in the 14's because my aero position just isn't up to scratch yet. Love that bike!

 

[dude7691]

reckon on 6 degrees on windchill at 20 mph

Yep sorry, I got mixed up with the 2 degrees per thousand feet rule haha. Air temp of 8 degrees. It's about 2 degrees C at 30mph of wind yeah, which is about what I was hitting on the hills, still pretty cold! My rule of thumb is roughly 1 degree lost per 5mph of airflow.