We really are treated as the poor cousin aren't we?

[Leodis]

Give us more detail regarding the measures you would propose.

I would not propose anything, I would prefer these measures against some fantasy over Dutch cycling.

 

[snorri]

I would not propose anything, I would prefer these measures against some fantasy over Dutch cycling.

I would prefer to chase the Dutch fantasy, which actually exists elsewhere rather than the Leodis fantasy about which you remain very secretive.

 

[stowie]

I would not propose anything, I would prefer these measures against some fantasy over Dutch cycling.

OK, so I think things like presumed liability are a good thing, but I cannot see how it will make motorists more careful around cyclists. Drivers assume they won't hit you and massively mis-estimate risk in general, especially around people using modes of transport they have no experience of.

Things like minimum overtaking distance sounds fine but how would it be policed, when things which are more clear cut such as ASL encroachment aren't at the moment anyway. Would it surely not end up simply another law that drivers can safely ignore knowing that there are no consequences to it?

Realistically, I think that the best way to encourage cycling is to start by turning streets back into streets and designing them around pedestrians with permeability for cyclists. Then major routes which are on cyclist desire lines can have segregation where it is required and where it helps cyclists. A way of doing this now quite easily would be to introduce more bus lanes (CS2 could be bus lane for nearly all of it) and this then also aids buses. Then I would have harsh penalties for those using these lanes in an antisocial manner..

 

[ComedyPilot]

@Leodis - The 'fantasy' isn't a fantasy for the Dutch...they made it reality...is the concept so hard to grasp?

 

[Leodis]

@Leodis - The 'fantasy' isn't a fantasy for the Dutch...they made it reality...is the concept so hard to grasp?

The Dutch can afford to spend £20 per person on cycling, the UK cannot. Cycling in Holland is a world apart from cycling in the UK, you try and get some of them London commuters on Gaz's videos to travel at pootling speed on a segregated path with women in flowery skirts and men with long hair holding them up.

 

[MontyVeda]

The Dutch can afford to spend £20 per person on cycling, the UK cannot. Cycling in Holland is a world apart from cycling in the UK.
...

no... it's just across the North Sea... you seem to be confusing "it'll never happen' with "it'll never work".

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

The Dutch can afford to spend £20 per person on cycling, the UK cannot. Cycling in Holland is a world apart from cycling in the UK, you try and get some of them London commuters on Gaz's videos to travel at pootling speed on a segregated path with women in flowery skirts and men with long hair holding them up.

Doesn't seem to bother these guys...



View: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wD1qqqO4fx0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwD1qqqO4fx0

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The Dutch can afford to spend £20 per person on cycling, the UK cannot?

On what basis can the Dutch afford it yet the UK can't? We can afford to spend nearly twice as much, as a percentage of GDP, on our military as they do.

 

[Leodis]

Doesn't seem to bother these guys...



View: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wD1qqqO4fx0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwD1qqqO4fx0

Enjoyed the video, I am sure the little girl didnt.

 

[Kookas]

The situation in Holland has relatively little to do with how much money is spent. It's a cultural thing that has been bred in over the last 50 odd years.

Most drivers are cyclists. As they also tend to be regular cyclists themselves, then they understand how vulnerable they can be. There is a presumption of liability in Holland, which means Dutch drivers are very, very cautious around vulnerable road users.

Rebuilding after the war and new urban development since has allowed the development of some good facilities (and some bloody awful ones as well). There is an emphasis on the hierarchy of provision, which puts pedestrians and cyclists at the top. Fewer short journeys in Holland are done by car and there has been an active campaign to discourage car use in urban areas, together with investment in public transport that makes sense for people to use.

That said... it's not all roses and rainbows in Holland. Lots of driver whinge about the costs of driving/parking, etc and about the behaviour of cyclists.

So you're saying we should have another war - maybe all al'Qaeda really wanted was better cycle lanes?

 

[Leodis]

So you're saying we should have another war - maybe all al'Qaeda really wanted was better cycle lanes?

 

[stowie]

Enjoyed the video, I am sure the little girl didnt.

I am fairly positive that the little girl riding the other way was cursing the off road infrastructure and just wishing that she could mix it with the cars and lorries on the road instead of other cyclists.

 

[Leodis]

I am fairly positive that the little girl riding the other way was cursing the off road infrastructure and just wishing that she could mix it with the cars and lorries on the road instead of other cyclists.

I bet she was, you see what will happen is that peds will start taking legal action against cyclists in the UK for accidents, obviously this will then lead to compulsory cycle insurance

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Ah - a Hembrow vid... no agenda there then.

I don't know what that means.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Oh ok cheers.