We're at fault on the roads, over deaths involving HGV's

[classic33]

Question:
Which of the following methods should be used to reduce risks for cyclists on the roads?
Proper enforcement (Including fines) of cyclists ignoring the rules of the road. 87% (97%)*
More training for cyclists on large vehicle blind spots. 85% (94%)*
Physical segregation of cyclists from other road users. 60% (77%)*
Lift bans to allow trucks to deliver before and after rush-hour period. 51%
More training for drivers. 48%
Redesign junctions to be safer. 48%
Voluntary fitment of safety equipment to vehicles. 26%
Mandatory fitment of safety equipment to vehicles. 23%
Other(Not Specified, my words). 14%
Ban cyclists from the rush-hour period. 11%
Ban trucks from the rush-hour period. 7%
No methods required to reduce risks for cyclists on roads. 1%

Majority of respondents (82%) feel that the national & local media are biased against trucks when reporting incidents involving trucks & cyclists.
More than two thirds (68%) felt that the government is not right to promote cycling without appropriate safeguards in place.

One respondent said "There needs to be less emotion and more hard facts & analysis.
Cycling, especially in London, with the advent Boris bikes, has increased rapidly. With many of the new cyclists having no training or experience of riding in a busy city. This has led to a number of fatal incidents which although they have also involved cars, buses & a coach or two, have concentrated on trucks because they are always seen as dirty, smelly, noisy & dangerous."
One driver said " The government & media should wake up to the reality that we all need to promote mutual respect for all road users. ............
..............Until people wake up to respecting each other's right to use the roads & start to respect other road users, there will always be stupid mistakes that costs lives. Cyclists: look out for vehicles & respect their size. Large vehicle drivers: respect the vunerability of cyclists"
Another driver said "I sometimes cycle; you don't realise how some vehicles get to you when passing until you have been on a bike yourself. Since I started cycling, I now give cyclists much more room when travelling behind them or overtaking. Until you cycle, you won't know how many people do not give way for bikes"

While many respondents were keen to point the finger of blame at cyclists, for the sake of balance only 35% of respodents said they had sent their drivers on on vunerable road user awareness training. Which type of haulier has embraced this the most: thats right, construction hauliers - nearly half (48%) use such traing

*Figures in brackets represent Construction Hauliers response, compared to survey average.
Nearly 200 respondents, which will have included haulage companies as well as drivers, took part in the survey.

Survey link was posted on here. So where do we go from here.
We can sit on the fence looking at our side of the problem, whilst everyone one else does the same. Somewhere on that fence, lies the solution.

Also posted on TruckNet UK THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM & OWNER AND FLEET OPERATORS FORUM.

 

[classic33]

Thats the view of those in the industry. Figures given above are from the survey.
Having read them, given the response, where would you say the blame lies. Using the results given!

 

[IncoherentJeff]

Whatever vehicle there will always be a small percentage of people who do not heed the rules of the road or advice offered, no matter how much training or technology, be it cars, vans, buses, HGVs, caravans, motorcyclists, tractors, etc. and indeed us cyclists.

I think one answer is to stop playing the blame game, keep up the awareness and keep drilling the point of road safety home to all road users, like the endless bombardment of anti-smoking adverts.

How about multiple TV ads of the same event but from different perspectives to raise awareness.
eg, a cyclist and a left lorry turning at a junction;

• Ad 1; 1st person view from the HGV drivers perspective; making cyclists aware of how they read the road ahead, the observations they make, the line they need to take to be able to turn the corner, to show people the limited visibility they have, what to do/not do. the potential risks & hazards, etc.
• Ad 2; 1st person view from the cyclists perspective; making drivers aware of the same but from the cyclists perspective.

The same could be done for lots of scenarios; cyclist & car, motorcycle & car, bus & car etc.

 

[buggi]

the only things i don't agree with are:

Physical segregation of cyclists from other road users; Voluntary fitment of safety equipment to vehicles. ( yes to Mandatory fitment); and banning cyclists from the rush-hour period.

This does nothing to promote cycling or mutual respect.

i do believe that its something that should be tackled from all angles and massively believe in training for cyclists as one angle.

i had the opportunity to stand on Trafalgar square for 20 mins at rush hour recently and watch the driver -v- cyclist scenario. I was shocked at how little a large number of cyclists interacted with drivers. I think bcoz we are all quite experienced on here we forget others are not. I watched one guy stop on the left of a junction, when the lights changed he proceeded into the middle lane, only to then take the first exit and, in doing so, crossed the path of a car in the nearside lane without even checking. Another scooted her bike (bcoz there wasn't room to cycle) up the left of a left turning bus and wait just on his left front corner, and others riding round the square between the lanes, weaving from one lane to the next very obviously unsure of where they should be. Many of them didn't even look when changing lanes. There were only a few good ones in the correct position.

what made it worse is I didn't see any bad behaviour from drivers, so i cant even whinge about them.

i know 20 min is a short snapshot in time but after everything said on here about how bad the drivers are, and as a cyclist myself, i was pretty dismayed by what i saw. Don't get me wrong, i didn't see law breaking gung ho cyclists, but i did see a lot of cyclists that were unsure, ignorant and/or just hoping for the best. They must be scaring the hell out of drivers. And as anger often arises from fear it could explain why some drivers are angry.

 

[classic33]

Thread title chosen because of the results of that one question. Which seems to point out that we as cyclists are to blame.

 

[classic33]

@buggi Five minutes at any busy junction will see a lot of laws being broken. Road users ignoring one another.
The question was from a survey in Commercial Motor in December. So it was aimed at those in the industry. Slightly suprised at the amount of blame laid at our feet though.

 

[buggi]

@buggi Five minutes at any busy junction will see a lot of laws being broken. Road users ignoring one another.
The question was from a survey in Commercial Motor in December. So it was aimed at those in the industry. Slightly suprised at the amount of blame laid at our feet though.

surprised? They've always blamed us!! Don't you know we're the devil reincarnated?

 

[classic33]

Its the amount of blame thats beenlaid at our feet that suprised me. They are also road users & must bear some of the responsibility of trying to sort the problem out.
Knee jerk reactions often result in something that no-one wanted.

 

[buggi]

@buggi Five minutes at any busy junction will see a lot of laws being broken. Road users ignoring one another.
The question was from a survey in Commercial Motor in December. So it was aimed at those in the industry. Slightly suprised at the amount of blame laid at our feet though.

also, it reminds me of a survey carried out which concluded the general public believed that girls who wore short skirts or got drunk pretty much deserved to get raped (obviously didn't occur to these people that rapists target these women so that jurors empathised with the rapist and thus get off or get a lighter sentence)

 

[buggi]

Its the amount of blame thats beenlaid at our feet that suprised me. They are also road users & must bear some of the responsibility of trying to sort the problem out.
Knee jerk reactions often result in something that no-one wanted.

mate they will always blame the cyclist for one simple reason... They sympathise with drivers bcoz they get easily distracted themselves and are worried they will find themselves in the same position. that's why drivers support proposed laws for helmets and the like and do not support laws to increase sentences for drivers who kill. They will support anything that puts the responsibility on anyone but them.

 

[summerdays]

Both sides make mistakes, the main problem is who pays for the mistake, the vast majority of the time the cyclist.

 

[buggi]

Was that an attempt at a joke Buggi?

no its true. I read it about 8 years ago. Appalling in my opinion. These people sit on juries.

 

[ufkacbln]

Dear lorry driver, are you going to vote for restrictions to your activities - NO
Dear Lorry Driver, are you going to admit that large numbers of your colleagues drive dangerously - NO
Dear Lorry driver, would you rather blame somene else for your shortcomings and restrict their activities - YES


There you are .... the entire survey in three questions

 

[ufkacbln]

no its true. I read it about 8 years ago. Appalling in my opinion. These people sit on juries.

Things don't change!

In 1934 the then Ministar of Transport Lord Brabazon stated:

“It is true that 7000 people are killed in motor accidents, but it is not always going on like that. People are getting used to the new conditions… No doubt many of the old Members of the House will recollect the number of chickens we killed in the old days. We used to come back with the radiator stuffed with feathers. It was the same with dogs. Dogs get out of the way of motor cars nowadays and you never kill one. There is education even in the lower animals. These things will right themselves.”

Another attitude that still has its followers

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas!

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