What’s stopping women cycling?
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Andrew_P
In between here and there
When I first started cycling with my kids all Girls it took me a while to figure out what the tooting was all about, and the most recent and the most prolific was with my youngest 13 year old kid. She is fairly tall and curly blond hair out the back of her helmet but clearly young and clearly with her Dad I am guessing the tosser's in the cars and pavement are the same tossers who looked all my teenage daughters up and down in that "way" almost the minute they hit puberty whilst walking around a shopping centre or supermarket.
I wish I could give some anecdotal evidence of admiring comments aimed at me the best I could do they were taking the piss and the worst was hurling empty cans out of the back window of an Astra. Alongside the (probably same blokes) who think they are funny making comments or flinging things.
I had wondered if some of the targeting of Women on bikes is because it challenged the view of these so called men that all cyclist are self-gratification artists deserving abuse so instead confused they hurl sexual stuff, but then I am no phycologist
My youngest was querying with me that she wanted to get involved in a team sport really enjoyed Basketball at her Junior School no Baskball at her secondary School but hates Netball as not much running and no tackling running and jumping. I have to say it was on the night after I had read this thread and it did make me think how strange Netball is. I did Google it and came across some what looked like Aussie Rules articles/YT Promotions of Netball promoting it as a contact sport but it didn't bare any resemblance to my memory of Netball nor how my Daughter explained it to me! The Wikipedia explanation smacked of Basketball was too "aggressive in the late 1800's when it was introduced so Netball was born for Women, seems strange that it is perpetuated to this day in the same format.
I wish I could give some anecdotal evidence of admiring comments aimed at me the best I could do they were taking the piss and the worst was hurling empty cans out of the back window of an Astra. Alongside the (probably same blokes) who think they are funny making comments or flinging things.
I had wondered if some of the targeting of Women on bikes is because it challenged the view of these so called men that all cyclist are self-gratification artists deserving abuse so instead confused they hurl sexual stuff, but then I am no phycologist
My youngest was querying with me that she wanted to get involved in a team sport really enjoyed Basketball at her Junior School no Baskball at her secondary School but hates Netball as not much running and no tackling running and jumping. I have to say it was on the night after I had read this thread and it did make me think how strange Netball is. I did Google it and came across some what looked like Aussie Rules articles/YT Promotions of Netball promoting it as a contact sport but it didn't bare any resemblance to my memory of Netball nor how my Daughter explained it to me! The Wikipedia explanation smacked of Basketball was too "aggressive in the late 1800's when it was introduced so Netball was born for Women, seems strange that it is perpetuated to this day in the same format.
I have quite a 'primary' perspective on school PE, where the gender divides are much less marked in terms of who does what - although some extra curricular clubs are male or female dominated, everyone does everything in lessons and actually at my son's school two of the strongest players on the footie team (the one that plays against other schools' "boys team") are girls. Everyone does netball, everyone does dodgeball, everyone does tag rugby.... My personal experience was that despite never having been remotely sporty - my dyspraxic tendencies and poor eyesight make any kind of ball games a fairly high-risk activity - I managed to represent my primary in several school teams because the school I attended was so tiny that it needed all the girls in the 'juniors' to make a side! At secondary, judging by the experience of the EldestCub, it seems a lot more traditional with the girls doing hockey/netball and the boys football/basketball and so on.
@Andrew_P - are there any extra-curricular clubs locally that would allow your daughter to access the sports that she prefers?
@Andrew_P - are there any extra-curricular clubs locally that would allow your daughter to access the sports that she prefers?
BoldonLad
Not part of the Elite
- Location
- South Tyneside
I have followed this thread since the beginning, making my own (mostly light hearted comments along the way), but, I think I am right in saying that you are the only poster who has referred to the fact that Women (and/or Men) are not one single package of identical beings. We are all a little different. Therefore (IMHO) there are almost as many reasons why Women are less likely to cycle than Men, as there are Women.
Andrew_P
In between here and there
[QUOTE 5125755, member: 10119"]I have quite a 'primary' perspective on school PE, where the gender divides are much less marked in terms of who does what - although some extra curricular clubs are male or female dominated, everyone does everything in lessons and actually at my son's school two of the strongest players on the footie team (the one that plays against other schools' "boys team") are girls. Everyone does netball, everyone does dodgeball, everyone does tag rugby.... My personal experience was that despite never having been remotely sporty - my dyspraxic tendencies and poor eyesight make any kind of ball games a fairly high-risk activity - I managed to represent my primary in several school teams because the school I attended was so tiny that it needed all the girls in the 'juniors' to make a side! At secondary, judging by the experience of the EldestCub, it seems a lot more traditional with the girls doing hockey/netball and the boys football/basketball and so on.
@Andrew_P - are there any extra-curricular clubs locally that would allow your daughter to access the sports that she prefers?[/QUOTE]
Sorry quoted you but only the first paragraph is a direct reply, post ended up much longer than I anticipated..
She does do Gymnastics, the School runs after School Football which she quite enjoys. She has a real talent for anything athletic at 13 she could go to my work and back 30 mile round trip and I would barely have to make any allowance for her being with me which for 13 is pretty good. She is looking for local Women's Basketball clubs, but not many around.
When I next speak to my eldest I will ask her about cycling she used to cycle to work through London and currently gets around Bath by bike and does a bit of Deliveroo she has never really mentioned harassment other than the normal Driver/Cyclist stuff but then I have never really asked the question. She treats the bike purely as transport.
Out of my 3 daughters 2 are keen on cycling the eldest is 21 this year. When she lived and worked in London her preference was to take as much as possible paths and avoid the roads as much as possible, my youngest 14 is fairly nervous on the roads partly due to news items, friends and family perception of danger and unfortunately experience. She is fine with me but not confident enough to go solo. There is a tendency from people to consider me taking my kids out on their bikes on main roads as dangerous and if I am entirely honest I had never really thought about it much but I am pretty sure this would not have been so strongly felt had they been boys. This seems to perpetuate itself in to peoples risk assessing when they get older and also seems to be weighted heavier towards females and "danger" both in their perception and reinforced by others should they even mention they are think of riding a bike on the road (are you mad?) which again is pretty strange but it does seem to stick.
I would think a large part of lack of cycling by females is the infrastructure and maybe the perception of what a cyclist normally looks like. Weird Shorts, weird helmets, funny shoes, road bikes, flat out riding. Look at the picture of the Breeze ride video in that BBC article conformity to the stereo type of what a cyclist should look like thus perpetuating the myth! Compared to this, can you imagine the uproar if the BBC had featured images like this as examples of cycling?
When I was not cycling I had a perception based around the cyclists I normally saw an what a cyclist should look like. Looking back I think it was a bit of barrier to me, apart from the investment I wasn't sure at 46 I could get myself in to the clothing let alone go out in public to be ridiculed.
What I am driving at is unlike countries where Cycling is commonplace we don't get to see such a mixture of cyclists who use it for a means of transport wear normal clothes and take a leisurely plod up to the shops on a sit up normal bike. Its not seen as normal to see a female cycling in the UK anymore. Its is seen and referred to as a sport largely or men commuting in clothes that look like they should be in a race. Honestly I am not denouncing Lycra I wear it but I am pretty sure it is one of the barriers along side danger and infrastructure.
Perhaps in my naivety I never considered unwanted sexual harassment nor sexism by male cyclists, I am not even sure why they have broken out male cyclists per se in the sexism part to be honest if sexism is playing a part it is on the whole not just cyclists and honestly not just males at all. Trying telling your mother in law that you just rode in rush hour traffic with a your 13 year old daughter to see the reaction. Now whether this reaction would have been the same for a boy who knows, I have a feeling it may have been similar but not anywhere near as strongly put.
So really you have two ism's joining together Sexism and Cyclism as a group male or female it is acceptable in the wider public to denounce, insult, moan or take the mickey out of cyclists, you just have to listen or read the comments when cycling is being debated. Then add on to that the sexism\harassment when a female is seen in that group and it appears this then makes sexism even more focused and almost allowed.
So to get more people, including women cycling needs to be seen as normal regardless of your bike or what you wear, good for you, and safe. I fear we have a long way to go to get to seeing streets in the UK like the above, the first step would be stopping this obsession with Helmets
@Andrew_P - are there any extra-curricular clubs locally that would allow your daughter to access the sports that she prefers?[/QUOTE]
Sorry quoted you but only the first paragraph is a direct reply, post ended up much longer than I anticipated..
She does do Gymnastics, the School runs after School Football which she quite enjoys. She has a real talent for anything athletic at 13 she could go to my work and back 30 mile round trip and I would barely have to make any allowance for her being with me which for 13 is pretty good. She is looking for local Women's Basketball clubs, but not many around.
When I next speak to my eldest I will ask her about cycling she used to cycle to work through London and currently gets around Bath by bike and does a bit of Deliveroo she has never really mentioned harassment other than the normal Driver/Cyclist stuff but then I have never really asked the question. She treats the bike purely as transport.
Out of my 3 daughters 2 are keen on cycling the eldest is 21 this year. When she lived and worked in London her preference was to take as much as possible paths and avoid the roads as much as possible, my youngest 14 is fairly nervous on the roads partly due to news items, friends and family perception of danger and unfortunately experience. She is fine with me but not confident enough to go solo. There is a tendency from people to consider me taking my kids out on their bikes on main roads as dangerous and if I am entirely honest I had never really thought about it much but I am pretty sure this would not have been so strongly felt had they been boys. This seems to perpetuate itself in to peoples risk assessing when they get older and also seems to be weighted heavier towards females and "danger" both in their perception and reinforced by others should they even mention they are think of riding a bike on the road (are you mad?) which again is pretty strange but it does seem to stick.
I would think a large part of lack of cycling by females is the infrastructure and maybe the perception of what a cyclist normally looks like. Weird Shorts, weird helmets, funny shoes, road bikes, flat out riding. Look at the picture of the Breeze ride video in that BBC article conformity to the stereo type of what a cyclist should look like thus perpetuating the myth! Compared to this, can you imagine the uproar if the BBC had featured images like this as examples of cycling?
When I was not cycling I had a perception based around the cyclists I normally saw an what a cyclist should look like. Looking back I think it was a bit of barrier to me, apart from the investment I wasn't sure at 46 I could get myself in to the clothing let alone go out in public to be ridiculed.
What I am driving at is unlike countries where Cycling is commonplace we don't get to see such a mixture of cyclists who use it for a means of transport wear normal clothes and take a leisurely plod up to the shops on a sit up normal bike. Its not seen as normal to see a female cycling in the UK anymore. Its is seen and referred to as a sport largely or men commuting in clothes that look like they should be in a race. Honestly I am not denouncing Lycra I wear it but I am pretty sure it is one of the barriers along side danger and infrastructure.
Perhaps in my naivety I never considered unwanted sexual harassment nor sexism by male cyclists, I am not even sure why they have broken out male cyclists per se in the sexism part to be honest if sexism is playing a part it is on the whole not just cyclists and honestly not just males at all. Trying telling your mother in law that you just rode in rush hour traffic with a your 13 year old daughter to see the reaction. Now whether this reaction would have been the same for a boy who knows, I have a feeling it may have been similar but not anywhere near as strongly put.
So really you have two ism's joining together Sexism and Cyclism as a group male or female it is acceptable in the wider public to denounce, insult, moan or take the mickey out of cyclists, you just have to listen or read the comments when cycling is being debated. Then add on to that the sexism\harassment when a female is seen in that group and it appears this then makes sexism even more focused and almost allowed.
So to get more people, including women cycling needs to be seen as normal regardless of your bike or what you wear, good for you, and safe. I fear we have a long way to go to get to seeing streets in the UK like the above, the first step would be stopping this obsession with Helmets
airborneal
Senior Member
- Location
- Harwich
There's nothing stopping them, you could ask why don't more men do Zumba, why don't you see women kicking the ball in the park with tops for goalposts.
Maybe it's just not there thing so much in general.
Quote from web
"The reasons for this are not just specific to Zumba – men in general prefer to work out alone, while women make up the majority of most cardio classes."
I know my wife tends to to walking, fitness etc in groups where it also becomes a sociable thing
Maybe it's just not there thing so much in general.
Quote from web
"The reasons for this are not just specific to Zumba – men in general prefer to work out alone, while women make up the majority of most cardio classes."
I know my wife tends to to walking, fitness etc in groups where it also becomes a sociable thing
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
[QUOTE 5125751, member: 10119"]Have we found any answers to the actual question yet? I've just got back from a 14 hour unpaid school trip accompanying our 50-strong choir to join about 6 thousand other children performing at the Manchester Arena so am playing catchup....[/QUOTE]
We've ruled out evolution.
We've ruled out evolution.
FishFright
More wheels than sense
I've been asking the women in my life about why more them don't cycle. In no particular order
1. They don't want to, not interested.
2. Perceived to be too expensive due to the silly money I spend
3. Prefer to exercise with the friends inside ,gym etc
4. Current/ex partner who is a cyclist with a really nice bike(s) but bought them a BSO which they hated so put them off.
5. Men going on about how dangerous the roads are on which they battle traffic and each other (too macho)
Do the same I'd be interested if these were common reasons. And I mean do it and not post about what you think their answers would be instead.
1. They don't want to, not interested.
2. Perceived to be too expensive due to the silly money I spend
3. Prefer to exercise with the friends inside ,gym etc
4. Current/ex partner who is a cyclist with a really nice bike(s) but bought them a BSO which they hated so put them off.
5. Men going on about how dangerous the roads are on which they battle traffic and each other (too macho)
Do the same I'd be interested if these were common reasons. And I mean do it and not post about what you think their answers would be instead.
Fab Foodie
hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
- Location
- Kirton, Devon.
Glad that after discussing Neanderthal man and changing wheels on cars, we are back on topic - which surely is interesting enough?
Good point about Spinning classes which have a very high participation by women, whether there is any translation into to cycling on the road I don't know. My own limited experience is that Spinning is harder than cycling! My thinking is that Spinning is seen as a a gym exercise rather than cycling and thus there is a gym-class 'mindset'. It would be interesting to survey Spinners and see how many cycle or not. Another factor is time. Spinning gives a bigger bang for yer buck in 1 hour than cycling and no kit to look after.
A couple of other thoughts/anecdata:
Mrs FF cycled, but only came on Freewheeling rides if there were other 'friends' going along (I was ride leader and I didn't count apparently), I think part of this was because she knew she would be able to cycle the same speed as them.... even though we always rode with a team of Tail End Charlies, nobody got left alone and we tried to ride to the pace of the slowest. There is a self-confidence/shyness issue here.
Furthermore I used to get castigated by Mrs FF for cycling 3 or 4 hours on a Sunday morning - my only exercise (didn't help that I was often away during the week), however she would do at least the same or more hours of exercise but split over several evenings in 1 hour slots, (again usually with a mate). This clearly fitted better with her and her mates routines than 3 or four hours on a Sunday or the longer time required for the Social club run on a Thursday evening.
Other factors why she might prefer gym were - no kit hassles, no weather issues.
In her 20s, MrsFF cycled to work in South London, a far more hazardous period (mid 80s) to be on the road than now....
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airborneal
Senior Member
- Location
- Harwich
I'm not necessarily comparing Zumba to cycling just saying maybe Women and men prefer different activities. We can ask that question to most things in life, generally we prefer different genre of films. You can go on and on.
I think Fishfright has summed it up, they probably don't want to. The same as men don't want to do certain things.
- Location
- London
Er nowhere did airborne say that women shouldn't have mortgages.
Or any of the other stuff.
A clear attempt to thread divert.
Will follow with a certain interest posts on women and cycling.
Or any of the other stuff.
A clear attempt to thread divert.
Will follow with a certain interest posts on women and cycling.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Sorry to ask afterwards, but could you estimate the relative frequency of those reasons?
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
The male/female split in Denmark is 47% and 53% (source) ...so there's a fair few more women cycling over there than here.
Commuter/utility cycling is very normal over there, whilst over here it's not. Maybe over here, we (the general population) perceive cycling as a sport rather than transport, and with so many alternative sport and exercise activities to choose from, cycling is not one of the more attractive or accessible.
Commuter/utility cycling is very normal over there, whilst over here it's not. Maybe over here, we (the general population) perceive cycling as a sport rather than transport, and with so many alternative sport and exercise activities to choose from, cycling is not one of the more attractive or accessible.
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Yet I chose cycling as I can commute doing it I didn't have to find time to do it. Pretty much every other sport or exercise I'd have had to fit it in.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
Same here... i simply don't do sport.
However i feel that cycling in the UK is generally perceived as sport rather than transport, otherwise so many conversations i have about cycling wouldn't become a willy waving contest about how far or how fast i go. Plus, when i'm out and about riding the country lanes in my casual clothes on my old MTB, I'm in a definite minority amongst the all other cyclists i see.
