What a tragedy.

[Drago]

We're of a pre-H&S generation with a better direct appreciation of risk and danger. Remember the rather unpleasant films you got to watch at school that graphically showed kids coming unpleasantly a cropper in farmyard, building sites, railways, etc? No punches were pulled, they were serious stuff and the lesson was learned.

But they dont show such films in schools today. Probably not worth the grief it'd generate from parents, the guardian, and some children's charity that thinks not offending the poor little luvvies sensibilities is more important than the very fundamental life skill of staying alive.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Those films use to scare the pants off of us (actually, that's probably not the best phrase to use these days, especially if a certain Mr Saville was doing any of them).

As for fire, I know how quickly it can spread but people still have this thing of wanting to watch it to see what happens, almost as if it isn't real and is just a film/simulation/game type thing. 😆

 

[DRM]

Fire spreads *far* more rapidly than anyone ever expects.

We used to use the Bradford city disaster as part of work fire training. The video is sobering; the time from the first smoke being visible to the entire stand engulfed is about 90 seconds.

Leave immediately you see evidence of fire or hear an alarm. Never, ever try to fight a fire unless you're trained and absolutely certain you have an immediate exit available.

There's a documentary about the Bradford City fire on one of the streaming channels, with a timer showing 90 seconds from the first flickers under the stand, to being engulfed, iirc there was one poor Bobby that spotted what was happening at the very start, but couldn't get anyone to believe him about evacuating, 90 seconds is truly terrifying small amount of time to get the hell out of the area

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I suddenly have a mental image of (the late)
@vernon and his burning ping - pong balls! 🤦‍♂😆

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

I've been in buildings on fire three times, thank you very much. Once because a ceiling fan started a fire in the adjutants block while I was in there, once with another bobby to look for sleeping residents and once to help another bobby drag a chap out.

Hindsight be damned - first opportunity I was out of each one on the double. I didn't stop to gawp, gossip or scratch my arse.

Which may be, but the problem is that after such an event, people suddenly come out the woodwork, spouting such things as

"Oh well, of course*, if I had been there, I would have known instantly what was happening over there (gestures) and over here here (gestures) and I would have done x y and..."

No you wouldn't have, sit down and shut up ya flump! 😆


* - A key phrase these people always use... "Of course"... 🙄

 

[katiewlx]

They set off at 6pm to climb the second highest mountain the UK. They had jogging bottoms and trainers. No waterproofs. No crampons. No ice axes. The mountain is plastered with snow and ice. The ground steep on the route they took. Even the least experienced person should know it was a stupid idea.

as I said they may not have had the skillset necessary to understand the risks. and I dont want to be rude about them particularly as I know nothing about them other than this misadventure, but Ive met people, met other cyclists for that matter, out on roads in the middle of nowhere, with next to no idea or clue how they got there, or how they intend getting home or to their destination. some people do very stupid things, and its not an intelligence thing either, Ive known plenty of people with brains, but total lack of what we might label as survival skills.

 

[katiewlx]

The Yorkshire one appears to not be swimmers, but a teenage girl was swept out to sea and two fellers bravely, but foolhardily, went in to try and rescue her

that was my understanding of it, but I didnt want to speculate before the full facts were known, as yeah it appears to be one of those tragic examples where the urge to go in to help, was probably the wrong choice given the conditions, but I dont know how anyone could resist the compulsion to go in after them in the circumstances.

 

[katiewlx]

We had a very large (Charity ?) Xmas day swim in Lowestoft. 500+ people perhaps; going in I shouldn’t wonder on its 46th time being held. And from pics I’ve seen I suspect there was a large showing of volunteers, first aiders, Ambulances (?), hot drink providers, helpers etc

View attachment 796876

None of that changes the fact with the open terrain, the wind-chill, the freezing temp of the sea; not to forget the fact it was rough enough out there to get other swims cancelled - why so many who are completely out of their depth (Pardon the apt pun) think they can pop into the sea once a Year for a good cause with no ill effects.

It’s amazing in this day and age it’s allowed quite frankly. The same Town who’ sea-side park run gets cancelled with the first hint of a frost…..

None of that detracts from the Deaths of some folk across the Country tackling something so innocent / worthy on paper.

I suppose the point with Lowestoft was the beach is sandy and big enough they could section off a tiny bit, and give enough lifeguard protection, and maybe even say just to the swimmers, you cant go further than waist depth.

whereas at Southwold just down the coast a few miles, and Felixstowe too, where there arent any lifeguards on duty, maybe they have them in summer only, the beaches are quite narrow, pebbly and so on, youve piers, sea defences and all sorts getting in the way which can cause bigger waves and currents.

I dont know the sea didnt look that rough to me when I went for a ride along the prom, I wasnt about to get out my wetsuit and go for a dip, but its liek I said before as long as you understand the risk, understand cold shock in water and so on its a manageable risk.

 

[katiewlx]

The same could be said for riding a bike TBH - it's dangerous out there with cars !

even without cars, Ill admit Ive down over the years some incredibly stupid & dangerous, in hindsight, rides that could have so easily turned into a disaster that I was completely unprepared to deal with.

 

[Drago]

Which may be, but the problem is that after such an event, people suddenly come out the woodwork, spouting such things as

"Oh well, of course*, if I had been there, I would have known instantly what was happening over there (gestures) and over here here (gestures) and I would have done x y and..."

No you wouldn't have, sit down and shut up ya flump! 😆


* - A key phrase these people always use... "Of course"... 🙄

Im one of natures cowards and proud. Ill stand and fight if absolutely necessary, but given the chance will always yard away from danger rather than inch towards it.

No special skills, just a yellow streak a mile wide.

Sadly these days people's sense of self preservation has been bred out of them and in its place the reflex action has become waving a mobile phone about.

 

[simongt]

Crazy to have set out, crazy not to have turned back when it was obvious they were well out of their depth.

And setting out @ 18.00h. , without crampons or ice axes.
Are some folk simply overconfident to the point of stupidity, or just stupid - ?

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Sadly these days people's sense of self preservation has been bred out of them and in its place the reflex action has become waving a mobile phone about.

When I was a photographer, umpteen years ago now, you were... Ok, not so much trained..., But it was impressed on you to keep your nerve for as long as possible if something happened.

This was SLR still photography stuff though, not videos, so your 'nerve' could be pretty short lived anyway! 😆

Many of the great and famous pictures of the 20th century were such examples of this or even photographers realising they already might not survive, but decide to keep recording for posterity anyway - The camera and film come before the photographer, always! 😆

In the Swiss case, I just expect people didn't realize the severity of the situation until it was too late though.

 

[Beebo]

The Yorkshire one appears to not be swimmers, but a teenage girl was swept out to sea and two fellers bravely, but foolhardily, went in to try and rescue her

Now confirmed by police.
Young girl out with her parents was swept out to sea when she walked down the steps.
Her body is still missing, but the bodies of two men who entered the water have been recovered.

 

[Drago]

So so sad

 

[Vapin' Joe]

We're of a pre-H&S generation with a better direct appreciation of risk and danger. Remember the rather unpleasant films you got to watch at school that graphically showed kids coming unpleasantly a cropper in farmyard, building sites, railways, etc? No punches were pulled, they were serious stuff and the lesson was learned.

But they dont show such films in schools today. Probably not worth the grief it'd generate from parents, the guardian, and some children's charity that thinks not offending the poor little luvvies sensibilities is more important than the very fundamental life skill of staying alive.

I can remember when I was doing my apprenticeship, on day release at college we were shown a graphic film of an eye operation on someone who had been using a grinding wheel without wearing goggles. I spent most of it looking at the floor, but from then on I never went near a grinder without wearing safety goggles, despite one of the old hands at work telling me you don't need them because you can blink faster than the wheel will propel anything at your eye. They were his eyes and he could take all the risks he wanted with the, but I'm only ever going to have one pair of eyes and I wanted to look after them.