PhilDawson8270
Veteran
True, but I am safer not putting myself in the dangerous position regardless of the actions of the driver.
What an HGV sees of you
- Thread starter BigonaBianchi
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True, but I am safer not putting myself in the dangerous position regardless of the actions of the driver.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
No, But there can be mitigating circumstances to any incident. We have a duty of care to all other road users, but must also take responsibility of our own safety. Hopefully, riding your bike, you are aware of the risks enough to take action should another road user make a mistake, and hopefully when you're in a car, you're aware enough of a pedestrian/cyclist/motorcyclist that you can avoid killing them when they make a mistake.
As, the world is not perfect, mistakes will be made, by acknowledging that safety is the responsibility of ALL and not the responsibility of the largest vehicle then, hopefully 1 of the 2 involved are able to avoid the incident regardless of blame, the problem happens when both parties blindly continue, and then the blame game begins.
To reverse your argument, suppose that a pedestrian steps off a curb as you turn into a junction and you hit them, by your argument, that should be your (the cyclist) fault since you have the responsibility to the more vulnerable to keep safe.
Safety is the responsibility of everybody.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
The problem has been created by people, and society. But then, I'd rather be dodging HGV's than dodging other far more dangerous things that other societies have to
Yes. Pedestrians do not materialize out of thin air. It's not a reversal of the argument - it's the same argument.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
So, regardless of speed, distance and physics, the person in the bigger vehicle is always to blame?
The greater the danger you present to others, the more responsibility you have. So speed, mass, size all figure quite a lot in that.
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
Pedestrian stepping out into the road, in a distance that is not physically possible to stop? Car driver still to blame?
The closer you are to pedestrians and the less certain you are of their trajectory, the slower you need to go...
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
So Trucks should reduce speed to 10mph everytime they are within 14ft of a pedestrian? Cars should only do 20mph within 12m of a pedestrian?
Nigelnaturist
Guru
- Location
- Pontefract
^^^ This, I cringe at some mistakes I see, nearly been toasted twice this last week by purely observant errors, one was very scary, an on come car had over taken another and had barely enough time to start to move back in before we passed, them still on my carriage way approaching speeds were probably 60-80 mph (similar to the case where the lass died), the other was just lack of observation and pulling out in front of me, the main thing is I had spotted the danger in both cases and was prepared (the first less so, because of the speed at which it happened, but was aware and had an alternative opt out, though in reality I probably wouldn't have time to make the safer manoeuvre i.e. the ditch/grass verge/hedge), accidents usually occur due to not observing what is going on around you, and failing to take appropriate action, and no matter how good we are (and humans are pretty good most of the time), it only takes one small error to kill someone, be it their error of judgement or yours, so we all have a responsibility to each other to try and be in the right place, and down the inside of a truck/bus/van/car is not the safest of places to be, it doesn't matter if the driver can/does/does not see you, stay behind the vehicles (assuming you are the one pulling up) and you will be safe.
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That sounds like one way of managing the danger, yes. You are aware of the 20's Plenty campaign?
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
Of course bearing in mind the UK Mean road width is approx 11m, so therefore, cars should be travelling 20mph, when there's a pedestrian on any side of the road or within a 12m line of sight to them? Regardless of the current posted speed limits and traffic levels?
Are you talking to me or yourself now?
PhilDawson8270
Veteran
@theclaud
Who is responsible for this incident?
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNc4XGzsuzo&feature=youtu.be
The larger vehicle, or the cyclist?
Before the comment about the advanced stop line, it's legal for the motorcycle to be there, since the gated entry into the ASL box is not a solid line, but an advisory broken one, so the motorcycle did NOT brake a compulsory solid white line to be there, and therefore did not brake the first stop line. (ASL Box regulations, refer to vehicles not being permitted to brake the first stop line on red, not specifically motor vehicles, so cyclists also should NOT enter an ASL box if the light is on red, unless through a gate on the cycle lane)
Who is responsible for this incident?
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNc4XGzsuzo&feature=youtu.be
The larger vehicle, or the cyclist?
Before the comment about the advanced stop line, it's legal for the motorcycle to be there, since the gated entry into the ASL box is not a solid line, but an advisory broken one, so the motorcycle did NOT brake a compulsory solid white line to be there, and therefore did not brake the first stop line. (ASL Box regulations, refer to vehicles not being permitted to brake the first stop line on red, not specifically motor vehicles, so cyclists also should NOT enter an ASL box if the light is on red, unless through a gate on the cycle lane)
