What are my rights !

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OP
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Adam4868

Adam4868

Guru
Probally got the answers I needed allready,yes I did read it but its not really the case.I dont think 4 to 6 weeks is acceptable in this case.Im pretty sure if you buy a tv,fridge ect and it breaks/fails in the first six months it's not up to standards.But i guess ill have to accept it and get over it.
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
Nobody said you had to go out and buy a new one.

Steve
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Probally got the answers I needed allready,yes I did read it but its not really the case.I dont think 4 to 6 weeks is acceptable in this case.Im pretty sure if you buy a tv,fridge ect and it breaks/fails in the first six months it's not up to standards.But i guess ill have to accept it and get over it.
TBF, I sympathise Adam....but...
You're analogy re the fridge is fair enough but this is the trouble with buying online...you save money but somewhere along the line your rights seem to get diluted.
I suspect if you'd brought the battery from a shop, you'd have had a far better chance of a better outcome.
Swings and roundabouts I guess.
 

Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Their 2 year warranty is in addition to the Sale of Goods Act. It might not be worth the internet page it is written on. If a fault develops less than 6 months after purchase the presumption is on the retailer to prove it was not faulty which they have done. After 6 months the burden is on the consumer to show that the item was not of suitable quality. If an item is not fit for purpose this would be evident almost immediately and you would have a reasonable period to reject and return it. Quite clearly it was suitable for purpose just not of sufficient quality or durability all features of goods that are covered under SoGA and the Distance Selling Regulations as you bought on t'internet. The seller has offered you a partial refund as you have had 5.5 months use out of your battery before it failed. This is wholly reasonable. As the item failed you are entitled to claim all reasonable costs stemming from the fault/breach under the Sale of Goods Act and also the Distance Selling Regulations which would include return postage costs which I would have thought would have been considerable given that a car battery is heavy and hazardous to transport.

You have a reasonable time to return an item to a seller from the time which it develops a fault. So if you left it 3 months after it became faulty then you might find gaining any replacement or repair or even refund more challenging unless there were extraordinary circumstances that prevented you from returning it. I would press for more i.e. a full refund and certainly your return postage but if a full refund is not forthcoming then except the partial offer and move on. You could threaten the seller with the Small Claims Court but it would likely cost you more in money and time than you would get back not to mention stress that would be generated.

Who did you buy it from? Several posters have asked above but you've dodged the question. The least you can do is tell us as we have given our advice and time for free. Don't worry it is highly unlikely you will be sued if what you have told us is true.
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
[QUOTE 3126551, member: 30090"]It's not fit for purpose. If it has a two year warranty yet fails after a few months then this is obvious and providing you have not been mistreating the battery to make it this way then you are entitled to a full refund.

Yes the suppluer can offer an exchange but it is up to you whether you accept this.

Sales of goods act - it's all there.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately he has accepted the goods so won't have the option of getting a full refund. What he is entitled to is a repair or replacement, or a partial refund taking into account the use he's had of the goods. Certainly the retailer should be refunding all of the postage cost incurred in returning the battery.

See http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/sogaexplained


GC
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
[QUOTE 3126714, member: 30090"]Yes he is.

The seller has to make good by offering a replacement or repair at no extra cost to the buyer.

However if the buyer feels that the product is not worth it and feels that they can no longer trust the product then they are entitled to a refund.[/QUOTE]

The issue centres on acceptance; a person who has used an item daily for five months has accepted it. Full details are here in the Act you referred to.

GC
 

Risex4

Dropped by the autobus
[QUOTE 3126714, member: 30090"]Yes he is.

The seller has to make good by offering a replacement or repair at no extra cost to the buyer.

However if the buyer feels that the product is not worth it and feels that they can no longer trust the product then they are entitled to a refund.[/QUOTE]

Completely not.

Forget guarantees and warranties, they aren't really worth a jot. Under law as others have said, one you've accepted the goods - that is had the chance to receive and inspect it - any automatic 'right' to a refund is out the window. The only legal 'right' is a "right to remedy" but that does not automatically mean refund, and definitely doesn't mean you can simply claim a refund, rejecting all other offers of remedy out of hand. Consumer law is simply - and thankfully - not that lop-sided in favour of the customer. The trader simply has to offer a solution, nothing more.

No, it was fit for purpose until it failed. At that point the seller has an obligation under the warranty to repair or replace it. Which they have. If you plugged it in on day one and it made some toast instead of powering your lights, you could have claimed it wasn't fit for purpose.

This. I really really wish people would learn to differentiate between "fit for purpose" and "merchantable quality". If you ordered and paid for a battery (which dictionary.com describes as "A combination of two or more cells electrically connected to work together to produce electric energy."), as long as it does that scientificy thing and matches any other mumbo jumbo of voltages and charge capacities, it is fit for purpose. End. Of. No ifs. No buts. No maybes. It doesn't matter whether it failed in 5 months, weeks, millenia or seconds. As long as you didn't also state that you also wanted the product to predict the World Cup winner or solve world hunger, it is fit for purpose.

What it arguably isn't is "of merchantable quality". I.e, it isn't built to a satisfactory standard to fulfil its purpose/function for a reasonably expected amount of time or usage. A dodgy ground to be on anyway with consumables, hence why they are very rarely guaranteed in the first place. But anyway.

Nobody said you had to go out and buy a new one.
Steve

Again, this. Unfortunately, you can't say simply say "I've already bought a new one, so just give my money back" It simply - in terms of 'legal right', doesn't work that way. The trader has to have a chance to offer a remedy.

Although, enough of erroneous presumptions and "can't dos".

Under the SOGA, any complaint of fault is split into two categories. After 6 months, the burden of proof lies with the customer to prove the fault has happened through technical fault rather than misuse or fair use. Within 6 months, the burden of proof lies with the trader to prove that the fault has occured through misuse of neglect. Otherwise, the legal assumption is that the fault was inherent. That is to say, the fault was there from the start.
They've admitted already that there is a fault, so you could immediately question the P&P under responsibility of burden of proof. Also, they've admitted its faulty, but I'm assuming that they haven't provided evidence that the fault has occured since purchase. If they have or do do that, then the compensation has to be mitigated. If they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the product worked initially, but something failed recently, they are entitled to say "well, you had 5 months use, so we'll give you x% back". Although I am not a legal professional, 60% seems rather Scrooge like. If they can't prove that, then under 6 months, the legal presumption is that the fault was there from day 1.

The bottom line is this; you can disagree with the remedies they've offered you. You may have further weight in that said remedies must not result in "significant inconvenience to the customer" (to use the legal wording). A battery for a vehicle used for business which the loss of would result in £x000s may - and I stress may - be found as significant inconvenience, but then the counter argument is could you not have used another vehicle? (for example).
You can disagree and then take it up with a small claim's court and argue "under 6 months", "not of merchantable quality" and perhaps "significant inconvenience from the trader-offered-remedies", and stand a fairly good chance of winning. But your awards in the event of a finding in your favour would be cost of battery + P&P charges + (at a push) costs. Potential business loses would not be taken into account as you have said you have already sorted an alternate means (so was it really a significant inconvenience?) and therefore don't have any quantified losses. And at the end of the day, is it worth the time and money?

In this instance, my own personal opinion, take the exchange.
 
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Crankarm

Guru
Location
Nr Cambridge
Completely not.

Forget guarantees and warranties, they aren't really worth a jot. Under law as others have said, one you've accepted the goods - that is had the chance to receive and inspect it - any automatic 'right' to a refund is out the window. The only legal 'right' is a "right to remedy" but that does not automatically mean refund, and definitely doesn't mean you can simply claim a refund, rejecting all other offers of remedy out of hand. Consumer law is simply - and thankfully - not that lop-sided in favour of the customer. The trader simply has to offer a solution, nothing more.



This. I really really wish people would learn to differentiate between "fit for purpose" and "merchantable quality". If you ordered and paid for a battery (which dictionary.com describes as "A combination of two or more cells electrically connected to work together to produce electric energy."), as long as it does that scientificy thing and matches any other mumbo jumbo of voltages and charge capacities, it is fit for purpose. End. Of. No ifs. No buts. No maybes. It doesn't matter whether it failed in 5 months, weeks, millenia or seconds. As long as you didn't also state that you also wanted the product to predict the World Cup winner or solve world hunger, it is fit for purpose.

What it arguably isn't is "of merchantable quality". I.e, it isn't built to a satisfactory standard to fulfil its purpose/function for a reasonably expected amount of time or usage. A dodgy ground to be on anyway with consumables, hence why they are very rarely guaranteed in the first place. But anyway.



Again, this. Unfortunately, you can't say simply say "I've already bought a new one, so just give my money back" It simply - in terms of 'legal right', doesn't work that way. The trader has to have a chance to offer a remedy.

Although, enough of erroneous presumptions and "can't dos".

Under the SOGA, any complaint of fault is split into two categories. After 6 months, the burden of proof lies with the customer to prove the fault has happened through technical fault rather than misuse or fair use. Within 6 months, the burden of proof lies with the trader to prove that the fault has occured through misuse of neglect. Otherwise, the legal assumption is that the fault was inherent. That is to say, the fault was there from the start.
They've admitted already that there is a fault, so you could immediately question the P&P under responsibility of burden of proof. Also, they've admitted its faulty, but I'm assuming that they haven't provided evidence that the fault has occured since purchase. If they have or do do that, then the compensation has to be mitigated. If they can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the product worked initially, but something failed recently, they are entitled to say "well, you had 5 months use, so we'll give you x% back". Although I am not a legal professional, 60% seems rather Scrooge like. If they can't prove that, then under 6 months, the legal presumption is that the fault was there from day 1.

The bottom line is this; you can disagree with the remedies they've offered you. You may have further weight in that said remedies must not result in "significant inconvenience to the customer" (to use the legal wording). A battery for a vehicle used for business which the loss of would result in £x000s may - and I stress may - be found as significant inconvenience, but then the counter argument is could you not have used another vehicle? (for example).
You can disagree and then take it up with a small claim's court and argue "under 6 months", "not of merchantable quality" and perhaps "significant inconvenience from the trader-offered-remedies", and stand a fairly good chance of winning. But your awards in the event of a finding in your favour would be cost of battery + P&P charges + (at a push) costs. Potential business loses would not be taken into account as you have said you have already sorted an alternate means (so was it really a significant inconvenience?) and therefore don't have any quantified losses. And at the end of the day, is it worth the time and money?

In this instance, my own personal opinion, take the exchange.

I pretty much already said all this :rolleyes:. Btw the Distance Selling Regulations are applicable as well as SoGA as he bought the goods on t'internet not in a shop. Are you a trader?
 

steveindenmark

Legendary Member
The trader is offering a remedy by offering another battery and that is fair enough. It is not his problem that a new battery has already been bought.

I would take the battery offered and keep it for a spare.

Steve
 

swee'pea99

Legendary Member
I'm no lawyer and certainly can't quote chapter & verse, but I've always assumed (sometimes wrongly, it turns out) that English law makes some kind of 'fair' sense.

By which criterion, it would seem to me that if someone sells you duff goods - ie, you don't receive what you paid for - they should be obliged to 'put it right', and any expense involved should be their responsibility. It seems obvious to me that a car battery that lasts only six months is, in that sense, duff goods. 'When I paid £xx for this battery, I believed myself (and had every right so to believe) that I was buying a battery which would be good for, let's say, five years. That's how long car batteries last, give or take. I did not receive what I had every right to expect. You are now obliged to return me to the situation I should have been in, and any costs involved are down to you.' To me, that suggests that the supplier should provide a full refund, if requested - on account of their failure to provide what they were paid to provide - and the costs of return postage, given that they were incurred solely as a consequence of that 'failure'.

This may seem tough on the supplier, but I guess that's the kind of thing that nudges suppliers in the direction of choosing their suppliers carefully. so that ultimate buyers don't end up getting shafted, through no fault of their own.

Like I say, I'm no expert, and I could well be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. But it looks to me like a clear case of 'breach of contract' or something along those lines, and I find it hard to believe that English law would sit comfortably with a buyer being left so badly out of pocket when he has done absolutely nothing even remotely wrong.
 
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