What volcanic ash?

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

jonesy

Guru
Well that wasn't how I expected to spend the weekend! Two days to get back from Copenhagen overland. I was completely stuck because all the trains out of Denmark were fully booked for days ahead, but by a stroke of luck I and another delegate from the meeting I was at were offered a lift to Germany from two chaps who had managed to get a hire car to drive back to Spain. So a long drive to Koln, then slow trains to Calais as the fast ones and Eurostar were all fully booked. Late ferry, which missed the last train at Dover, so shared taxis and a night coach to get home in the early hours. On the way we bumped into all sorts of lost people trying to get somewhere, many of whom were in serious difficulties. We were very fortunate in that we were travelling on business so most of our additional expenses should be covered by work. There are families stuck on airport benches for days, or having to pay for expensive hotels, people needing to get back for exams, trying to get back from a family funeral etc. We heard of a family travelling from South Africa via Spain, where the husband didn't have a visa for overland travel in Europe so had to stay in the airport while his wife and child had to get a coach to the UK. etc etc I do find the media coverage that focuses so much on the losses suffered by the airlines rather frustrating- the costs are being felt far more widely than the airline industry, and while the latter will no doubt have their hands out for compensation there will be lots of small businesses and individuals who won't be.

One impression that stands out from the journey is the helpfulness we were given all the way across Europe: the hotels who were flexible about changing bookigns and departure times at short notice, the Deutche Bann staff who helped find alternatives to getting into Britain by Eurostar, the SNCF guard who made a point of speaking to anyone who looked like they were heading to the ferries to make sure they had the best information, and the extra buses SNCF laid on to get people to the ferry port. Sadly that helpfulness ended at the P&O terminal, where it was pretty clear that foot passengers are a lower form of life. No information at all on display, just a long queue before you could find out which ferry had space- would it have been so hard to put up a whiteboard with departure times and prices? And no thought whatsover to the onward travel needs of foot passengers. No information on connections to London. The ferry was late into port, but no announcements made about that, then they took foot passengers off via the vehicle deck, which meant a further delay while the car deck was emptied. This meant that everyone missed the last train from Dover, by about 5 minutes, which probably could have been avoided with a bit of planning, but that clearly wasn't their problem, so tough. And of course it is far too difficult in this country to coordinate rail and ferry operators to ensure connections are held... Fortunately I could share a taxi to London, others wouldn't have been able to do that. Just another example of how un joined up transport is here, compared with elsewhere.
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
Norm said:
The only evidence I can find is that one plane flew very close to an active volcano, close enough that the ash filled the cabin, which shut down the engines until the plane dropped out of the thick dust cloud. It was dark so they couldn't see the cloud they flew into.

They didn't know why it happened as they hadn't previously been any alerts relating ash to aircraft damage but, when another plane did the same thing a few days later, they figured it out.

It has happened once more since then.

I heard there had been 80 incidents of planes affected by volcanic eruptions... can't remember where I heard it though.
 

Davidc

Guru
Location
Somerset UK
Spinney said:
I wonder if all the passengers demanding the airlines fly would be happy to sign a disclaimer before take-off, with words to the effect that they accept they might die if ash gets into the engines...

There was talk the other day of cargo flights being resumed, which seems a sensible first step - except that there is still a flight crew at risk. Maybe volunteers only, for triple pay?

(But how do you know it isn't 'Volunteers - you, you and you!'?)

What about the unfortunate person on the ground it crashes onto when its engines seize up?

The well documented KLM and BA planes whose engines stopped in this stuff when full of passengers may have got engines going well enough afterwards to limp to an airport, but will the next one?
 

Davidc

Guru
Location
Somerset UK
summerdays said:
I heard there had been 80 incidents of planes affected by volcanic eruptions... can't remember where I heard it though.

As the number is >0 you won't catch me in an aeroplane until this stuff's gone!
 

Norm

Guest
dellzeqq said:
Saw a propellor aircraft in flight yesterday. Are these not affected?

Was that plane taking off, Dellzeqq? We saw a prop plane landing at Heathrow yesterday lunchtime.

Propeller planes are not as affected, although flying through a thick cloud (the level of dust which caused problems in the jets - not the level of dust which we have over the UK) of it would damage the leading edge making the prop less efficient, that's not as much of an issue. As I posted a way further back, they can only "officially" close controlled airspace, anyone who wants to fly beneath that (3,000 feet) is free to come and go as they please.

Our air ambulances were in and out all day yesterday. I suppose they're not high enough.

My guess is that some air ambulances have been affected because their base airfields have been closed. My sister in law has been staying over the weekend and she runs the control towers for three military airfields, all of which have been closed. With the base closed, nothing can fly in or out, whether it is military or civilian. I think that the Thames Valley police helicopter is based at RAF Benson, so they have probably been grounded if Benson is closed.

Globalti said:
In any case small aircraft don't fly high enough
High enough at the moment is the limit of controlled air space, and most planes can fly to 3,000 feet. Anyone wandering over that height may be facing some questions when they land.

summerdays said:
I heard there had been 80 incidents of planes affected by volcanic eruptions... can't remember where I heard it though.
I've looked and only found the three instances.

It's still beautifully peaceful here, though. :smile:
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Well what stress this has caused me xx(
What with the usual complications and difficulties at work (one machine is still playing up but we have a plan for tomorrow) things have suddenly come together....i hope, fingers crossed, almost darent say anything in case it goes awry again.
Hotel booking ran out tonight, which meant maybe a change of hotel again or the usual complications of who's paying for what !!!. So now i have free accomodation at the factory i'm working in, so no more expense for SWMBO. Thats the first bonus.
Then (hopefully) just as airspace is reportedly going to be eased, i've got a flight booked on Weds, business class with Czech Airlines with a quickish stopover in Prague. Nothing short of miraculous what with the amount of people trying to get back by any means available, amazing i could get a ticket at short notice.
My flight early tomorrow morning to Munich was cancelled and the earliest flight with Lufthansa was friday....

I said to a colleague in the UK, the situation is so fluid, its more like being engulfed in a tidal wave.

I was beginning to think the people with tour operators were lucky, but as it happens the company have come good. They did have a plan to get us to madrid, and then trying to follow up from there, but now (hopefully) i'll get straight into Manchester late wednesday.

I think anyone flying in the next 6 months, year, however long it takes for the volcano to settle will have a very uneasy time. If it clears....it could return again any time if the wind allows it.

Wierd today. Going back to the hotel in Limassol at about 5pm, its been about 25 + degrees all day. Driving along, i felt a chill. Then it got misty, then foggy. There's sea fog coming in and visibilitys down to about 50 yards. Its cold B) maybe 10 or 15 degrees. 5 minutes before it was hot and sunny. Once it cleared, the temps have gone back up. Wierd.

So, Czech Airlines ? Whats the score ?
 
Oh dear, Gordon Brown's going to save the world again..........
 

mangaman

Guest
gbb said:
Well what stress this has caused me :ohmy:
What with the usual complications and difficulties at work (one machine is still playing up but we have a plan for tomorrow) things have suddenly come together....i hope, fingers crossed, almost darent say anything in case it goes awry again.
Hotel booking ran out tonight, which meant maybe a change of hotel again or the usual complications of who's paying for what !!!......

You have my sympathy gbb.

Same with me - a flight booked for 6pm tonight to Nice to present a paper to a conference. Not my choice, but the NHS (ie everyone here's money was involved ;)) although I was pleased my work was being recognised.

Fortunately for the taxpayer I had blown 2 years study leave budget on the trip, so it didn't cost the NHS anything extra - just means I'll have to pay for conferences / training etc for the next 2 years out of my own pocket.

I had to make the call on Monday - to cut my losses (I got some discount from the hotel) or wait till Easyjet cancelled tonight's flight.

Luckily I made the right call, although it's been a real pain in the arse for the last 5 days and I'll have to go to work instead of enjoying the Nice sunshine for the next 4 days :biggrin:
 

Norm

Guest
Sadly, they've announced the re-opening of airspace. Although someone (not sure if it was Adonis or the BBC) screwed up the headline that "airports" will re-open as the airports haven't closed. :laugh:

Looks like they did decide to widen the goal posts rather than wait for the dust to settle.
The CAA said it was a "situation without precedent" and that decisions had been made based on "thorough gathering of data and analysis".
"The major barrier to resuming flight has been understanding tolerance levels of aircraft to ash," the CAA said.
"Manufacturers have now agreed increased tolerance levels in low ash density areas."
 

mangaman

Guest
Norm said:
Sadly, they've announced the re-opening of airspace. Although someone (not sure if it was Adonis or the BBC) screwed up the headline that "airports" will re-open as the airports haven't closed. :laugh:

Looks like they did decide to widen the goal posts rather than wait for the dust to settle.

Bugger - I missed it by a few hours.

Is this a conspiracy or cock-up type scenario? Did they change the goalposts for political or scientific reasons?

It would be nice to know, especially as the ash is likely to keep coming.
 
OP
OP
Globalti

Globalti

Legendary Member
mangaman said:
You have my sympathy gbb.

Same with me - a flight booked for 6pm tonight to Nice to present a paper to a conference. Not my choice, but the NHS (ie everyone here's money was involved :laugh:) although I was pleased my work was being recognised.

Fortunately for the taxpayer I had blown 2 years study leave budget on the trip, so it didn't cost the NHS anything extra - just means I'll have to pay for conferences / training etc for the next 2 years out of my own pocket.

I had to make the call on Monday - to cut my losses (I got some discount from the hotel) or wait till Easyjet cancelled tonight's flight.

Luckily I made the right call, although it's been a real pain in the arse for the last 5 days and I'll have to go to work instead of enjoying the Nice sunshine for the next 4 days :wacko:

My brother-in-Law was going to the same conference. He tells me that the organisers are determined for it to go ahead and have organised tele-conference facilities.
 
OP
OP
Globalti

Globalti

Legendary Member
The BA9 incident, which is what has been in everybody's minds, happened when the aircraft blundered into a thick ash cloud close to the source in Indonesia. I'd be willing to bet that thousands of aircraft have flown through low density ash such as we have here with no ill effects and what about aircraft that operate in naturally dusty conditions? Even the seasonal Hamattan in West Africa is worse - this is fine white dust blown down from the Sahara that produces an effect like fog and clogs everything. What does that do to aircraft engines?
 
Top Bottom