Keith Oates
Janner
- Location
- Penarth, Wales
Telling the truth all the time is a good principle but there are times when little white lies are needed. Would you tell a very sick friend or relative that they look horribly ill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What would happen if we told the truth the whole time?
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summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
What about if a child says "Santa does exist doesn't he?" after another child says that he doesn't! There may be good reasons for not telling the truth.
Or if someone is trying something very difficult (sportsman etc), then if you told them true-fully that you didn't think they could manage/achieve that, you might knock that enthusiasm, belief in themselves or what ever it was that might have got them to wring that extra bit out and achieve that goal.
I'm not saying you can't aim to be true-full I just think that the occasional omission of truth that helps other people and our relationships with them.
Or if someone is trying something very difficult (sportsman etc), then if you told them true-fully that you didn't think they could manage/achieve that, you might knock that enthusiasm, belief in themselves or what ever it was that might have got them to wring that extra bit out and achieve that goal.
I'm not saying you can't aim to be true-full I just think that the occasional omission of truth that helps other people and our relationships with them.
beanzontoast
Guru
- Location
- South of The Peaks
This post reminds me of the start of 2010 (the movie) where the Russian scientist asks the American scientist to play a game where for the next 2 minutes they will speak only the truth, thereby exchanging more genuine information than hours of double-talk and later analysis would achieve. It also brings to mind the line in Miracle on 34th Street (about the existence of Santa) which goes something like: "Which is better - the lie that draws a smile or the truth that draws a tear?"
Out and out deception is obviously unhealthy for relationships. Brutal honesty can be just that - brutal. Somewhere in the middle is the land of tact and diplomacy - phrasing a truth in such a way that it is accurate and constructive without being offensive. So...
"No, your bum doesn't look big in that. But it looks bigger in this dress than in the dress you tried on earlier."
Out and out deception is obviously unhealthy for relationships. Brutal honesty can be just that - brutal. Somewhere in the middle is the land of tact and diplomacy - phrasing a truth in such a way that it is accurate and constructive without being offensive. So...
"No, your bum doesn't look big in that. But it looks bigger in this dress than in the dress you tried on earlier."
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
My sister has some diplomacy to do, after she recieved a knitted Andy Pandy suit for her littlest boy (NOT FROM ME!).
In this case the giver is one of those people who is generally on the blunt side. Isn't it funny how we dance rings round trying not to hurt the feelings of people who'd probably say it how it is? My Godmother is a very forthright (not rude, just forthright) woman who always chastised us as a family for our meekness. But the minute we said Actually, we don't want to do that, or eat this, or whatever, she was taken aback and slightly affronted...
There was a thing on Breakfast last week about how to say thank you convincingly for dreadful presents - all about how to appear grateful without having to actually lie about how nice it is....
In this case the giver is one of those people who is generally on the blunt side. Isn't it funny how we dance rings round trying not to hurt the feelings of people who'd probably say it how it is? My Godmother is a very forthright (not rude, just forthright) woman who always chastised us as a family for our meekness. But the minute we said Actually, we don't want to do that, or eat this, or whatever, she was taken aback and slightly affronted...
There was a thing on Breakfast last week about how to say thank you convincingly for dreadful presents - all about how to appear grateful without having to actually lie about how nice it is....
Aperitif
Meme bar
- Location
- ...I don't have much idea - really.
Lying while lying is double-bad.
I would go along with you, Crock (no holding hands, mind...) - but thousands would not. They would want to take advantage and manipulate your trust and openness, by fair means or foul, and it will continue to happen, locally, nationally and worldwide. It sounds sour and cynical, sure, but it is fact.
mgarl10024
Über Member
- Location
- Bristol
Older people, I find, have no tact at all. I'm sure I remember reading something about brain scans revealing that the bit of the brain used for tact doesn't work so well for older people. I personally think they've been around for so long they just don't care anymore.
Recently, when visiting my grandparents, we went to see their 88 year old neighbour who I've known since I was a kid. We went in, she welcomed us, and then said "oh, don't you look well? - well looked after and well fed". yeah, thanks for that.
bobg
Über Member
- Location
- Crosby Merseyside
Older people, I find, have no tact at all. I'm sure I remember reading something about brain scans revealing that the bit of the brain used for tact doesn't work so well for older people. I personally think they've been around for so long they just don't care anymore.
Recently, when visiting my grandparents, we went to see their 88 year old neighbour who I've known since I was a kid. We went in, she welcomed us, and then said "oh, don't you look well? - well looked after and well fed". yeah, thanks for that.
Funny you should say that.... I'm sure it's spot on!! And I speak as one.
However........ For the last 6 months I've spent time at the end of each day, running through what has happened and what I did and thinking about how I could be " more considerate etc " It has certainly made me realise that little white lies feature and are very difficult to avoid in many cases. I have discovered many many instances where I could have been a better person though.
Tact and phrasing make the difference:
Just **** off will you!
... or ...
I'm not in a good mood right now, so please leave me alone for a while and we'll sort it later.
More words, but less sharp.
You'll also find that people don't necessarily want complete honesty most of the time. A certain amount of honesty, perhaps, but not pure unadulterated unsugarcoated (real word?) honesty.
Just think about some of the honest things you might say to someone:
"Hi, how are you?"
"Well, actually, I'm feeling pretty crap right now. There's all sorts of crap stuff going on in my life and I'm quite miserable about the whole thing."
"Oh, erm, I see" (mood drops to below freezing ...)
... as opposed to ...
"Hi, how are you?"
"Oh, not too bad. You?"
"Yeah, can't complain" (mood is lighter and stays above freezing ...)
"What terrible service. Your manner is curt, you don't appear to have a single clue about how to engage a paying customer, and quite frankly I'm never going to shop here again because of the way I feel you have dealt with my purchase."
... as opposed to ...
"Thank you" (and never going back to that shop again!)
Wife: "Was it okay darling?"
You: "No, not really. The potatoes were undercooked, the gravy was lumpy, and the meat was dry. I would have been better off ordering a pizza in."
... as opposed to ...
Wife: "Was it okay darling?"
You: "Yes, it was nice. Thank you."
Then there are the times when you benefit from not being honest. When it works in your favour to either not tell the whole truth, or maybe even tell a complete porky.
Carefully phrased almost-complete-honesty can be both useful and an admirable quality. People will respect you for it, and if you are consistent they will always appreciate that when they ask you, you will be truthful - but in a way that doesn't hurt them too much.
Something I think that should to be practiced and honed, slowly and gently over time, rather than fitted on like a jet pack and wrung to full throttle in an instant!!!
Cheers,
Shaun
Oh, and good thread BTW.
Just **** off will you!
... or ...
I'm not in a good mood right now, so please leave me alone for a while and we'll sort it later.
More words, but less sharp.
You'll also find that people don't necessarily want complete honesty most of the time. A certain amount of honesty, perhaps, but not pure unadulterated unsugarcoated (real word?) honesty.
Just think about some of the honest things you might say to someone:
"Hi, how are you?"
"Well, actually, I'm feeling pretty crap right now. There's all sorts of crap stuff going on in my life and I'm quite miserable about the whole thing."
"Oh, erm, I see" (mood drops to below freezing ...)
... as opposed to ...
"Hi, how are you?"
"Oh, not too bad. You?"
"Yeah, can't complain" (mood is lighter and stays above freezing ...)
"What terrible service. Your manner is curt, you don't appear to have a single clue about how to engage a paying customer, and quite frankly I'm never going to shop here again because of the way I feel you have dealt with my purchase."
... as opposed to ...
"Thank you" (and never going back to that shop again!)
Wife: "Was it okay darling?"
You: "No, not really. The potatoes were undercooked, the gravy was lumpy, and the meat was dry. I would have been better off ordering a pizza in."
... as opposed to ...
Wife: "Was it okay darling?"
You: "Yes, it was nice. Thank you."
Then there are the times when you benefit from not being honest. When it works in your favour to either not tell the whole truth, or maybe even tell a complete porky.
Carefully phrased almost-complete-honesty can be both useful and an admirable quality. People will respect you for it, and if you are consistent they will always appreciate that when they ask you, you will be truthful - but in a way that doesn't hurt them too much.
Something I think that should to be practiced and honed, slowly and gently over time, rather than fitted on like a jet pack and wrung to full throttle in an instant!!!
Cheers,
Shaun
Oh, and good thread BTW.
frank9755
Cyclist
- Location
- West London
[QUOTE 1275941"]
But won't we become more emotionally intelligent and more correct in our relationships if we are honest?
[/quote]
I don't think so!
Wouldn't it be more like having a form of autism?
But won't we become more emotionally intelligent and more correct in our relationships if we are honest?
[/quote]
I don't think so!
Wouldn't it be more like having a form of autism?
ayceejay
Guru
- Location
- Rural Quebec
Let me approach this from another angle. What if you always lied?
I once had an employee who, it seemed was incapable of telling the truth. She would weave a web of lies around herself that was impenetrable. Eventually I had to let her go. Her reasons for being late or needing to leave early would put any storyteller to shame, the problem is that if she ever told the truth no one would suspect it but treat it too as untrue.
Elaborating on the truth (gilding the lilly) can be interesting and is completely different from total fabrication.
If your wife/girl friend asks you if her bum looks fat in a particular outfit remember that this is NOT the real question so you should truthfully answer what your wisdom tells you is the real question. You see women are complex characters and thats the truth.
I once had an employee who, it seemed was incapable of telling the truth. She would weave a web of lies around herself that was impenetrable. Eventually I had to let her go. Her reasons for being late or needing to leave early would put any storyteller to shame, the problem is that if she ever told the truth no one would suspect it but treat it too as untrue.
Elaborating on the truth (gilding the lilly) can be interesting and is completely different from total fabrication.
If your wife/girl friend asks you if her bum looks fat in a particular outfit remember that this is NOT the real question so you should truthfully answer what your wisdom tells you is the real question. You see women are complex characters and thats the truth.
beanzontoast
Guru
- Location
- South of The Peaks
numbnuts
Squire
- Location
- Gone over the hill and far away
No queues at confessional boxes in church 
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
If it was a friend then the first wouldn't be bad (not in a brilliant way obviously) but as in if they were feeling really bad I would rather that they told me than completely locked it in ... but hopefully I might have noticed something about how they looked anyway. I remember cycling past a friend and thinking she looked odd so stopped to ask how she was.... and she was needing to talk to someone.
It's a lot harder if it is someone you don't really know as then you know less about their background and how to respond to them.
twentysix by twentyfive
Clinging on tightly
- Location
- Over the Hill
Truth can and does hurt. So Diplomacy and tact are required.
Patient - well Doc what's what?
Doc - There is nothing that can be done - you will die a long and agonising death begining very soon.
Patient - well Doc what's what?
Doc - There is nothing that can be done - you will die a long and agonising death begining very soon.
badkitty
A Fiddler of ill repute
Spot on! Just go and live with someone with Aspergers Syndrome for a while and you'll see what happens if a person tells the truth all the time, unhampered by social niceties. Is pretty harsh and hard to deal with sometimes.
I actually have had to teach my aspie son to lie a little and bend the truth a bit occasionally. As a result he now has friends, but before that was utterly alone. From what I witnessed, I wouldn't recommend all out cold honesty.
