What's a "light steel frame" ?

[SkipdiverJohn]

Worth a read
https://kuromori.home.blog/reynolds-531/#50s

Thanks for that, it's a fascinating article to all fans of 531 steel frames (and no doubt considered really geeky by the rest of the population!). Strange it has never popped up on my previous 531-related google searches though.

 

[rogerzilla]

AIUI TI, who also owned Reynolds, bought out A&P and that was the end of chromoly tubesets for many decades. The MTB boom really launched chromoly again, with Tange and others getting in there before Reynolds.

A&P has been sold many times and still exists, but I don't believe it ever made bike tubing again.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

AIUI TI, who also owned Reynolds, bought out A&P and that was the end of chromoly tubesets for many decades.

It's funny how the British builders always tended to favour mang-moly, whereas the rest of the world favoured 4130 type steels, and Reynolds only started selling cro-moly in the early 1980's. I wonder if the formulation for 501 was actually that of A & P Kromo, with the recipe pulled out of the archives and dusted off?
I don't believe 501 is just a straight 4130 clone, because if you read Reynolds literature from the 80's comparing the relative strengths of different tubing steels, they differentiate between commercial cro-moly and their own 501 tubing, the latter being slightly stronger.

 

[avecReynolds531]

Two Accles and Pollock adverts from the 1930s.

Edit:

It's funny how the British builders always tended to favour mang-moly, whereas the rest of the world favoured 4130 type steels, and Reynolds only started selling cro-moly in the early 1980's. I wonder if the formulation for 501 was actually that of A & P Kromo, with the recipe pulled out of the archives and dusted off?
I don't believe 501 is just a straight 4130 clone, because if you read Reynolds literature from the 80's comparing the relative strengths of different tubing steels, they differentiate between commercial cro-moly and their own 501 tubing, the latter being slightly stronger.

That's interesting about the origins of 501.

The Dawes page at Classic Rendezvous written by framebuilder Norris Lockley (Bespoke of Settle) has this:

'Rather than being satisfied with locally-drawn gas-pipe for some of its lower range models, Dawes
used a high grade carbon-rich mild steel tubing called Mazzucato ( also known for the ORIA brand)
made from Mannesmann steel. In the late 70s and early 80s they then adopted for some of their mid
range and slightly better frames (according to Ron Kitching who negotiated the contract and took
his agent's commission on the deal) an Ishiwata tubing called Magny-V whose qualities... possibly a
type of 4130 Chro-Mo... were ideal for hearth or oven brazing without loss of quality.

This move by a large and highly respected company, according to Kitching, terrified the boffins at
nearby Reynolds Tubing. That company's response was to develop the 501 range of tubing... which
was widely adopted throughout the industry by companies such as Raleigh, Peugeot..and Dawes.
Columbus followed suit with its CROMOR set.'

Full article: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Dawes_main.htm

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

View attachment 543416

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Two Accles and Pollock adverts from the 1930s.

Edit:


That's interesting about the origins of 501.

I've got absolutely no evidence to support my thinking, it just seems logical to me. A & P had a cro-moly product which was well proven and they will have had the metallurgical recipe, which Reynolds acquired. Since Kromo could be seen as a more or less direct competitor to 531, it is understandable it was dropped for bicycle frames.
However, when cro-moly began to appear from other suppliers, Reynolds could not do anything about this, other than try to maintain market share by offering their own cro-moly product. Since they already owned the Kromo recipe, why not just dust it off?
753 is another interesting one, because its formulation is just heat treated 531 - and Reynolds had been heat treating 531 years ago. They may have tinkered around with the exact method of treatment, but basically they already had the product and it had been experimented with.
Completely unrelated to bike frames, but there are a number of beers being brewed today where the brewers have dusted off their books going back 150 years and are now brewing beers based on Victorian recipes - generally with slightly reduced gravities.

 

[carpenter]

I like a "session" beer - too many beers are around 6%, which just hits me too hard (I do like several pints)

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I like a "session" beer - too many beers are around 6%, which just hits me too hard (I do like several pints)

Strong ones have their place, but not when you have to get up for work in the morning!. Actually 6% is fairly tame by historical standards. Now what were we saying about steel frames....?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The Moulton steel bikes are under 9kg total build. I wonder how much the space frames weigh?

 

[avecReynolds531]

I was out on the blue bike again (shown here on the left) - an early eighties 531 frameset.

Though set up with it's original heavy Weinmann rims, a 14-34 freewheel & a fork rake of 2.5"/ 63cm, it doesn't feel like a touring frame (no rack eyes). It's easy to induce flex at the bottom bracket and it accelerates well despite relaxed frame angles. Seems to be more audax or demi course... what would a decent set of wheels do for a transformation

...anyhow, got to thinking about Reynolds tubing gauges & 27.2mm seatposts - found this to be a really helpful article: https://raleigh-sb4059.com/2017/02/01/reynolds-tubing-wall-thickness-tube-gauge-and-seat-pin-size/

edit: link to the fascinating Bicycle Quarterly feature about thin wall steel frames, frame flex & planing:

Can a 650B randonneur bike climb as well as the best titanium racing bikes? https://www.renehersecycles.com/what-is-planing/