Where were the women?

[chap]

Well I am going by my own experiences here. It is extremely rare for me to be without a car for more than a day as a result of a mechanical problem. It is equally rare for me to get my bike back within one day after taking it to the LBS for a repair. As an example, my road bike is currently in to have a wheel relaced; I took it in on Wednesday 3rd February and I was told last Saturday it would be ready this Wednesday (17th). Last summer after an accident I was without my folder for six weeks due to delays in getting spare parts. Waiting a week for a bike repair is the norm here during the summer, the main reason why I decided to learn how to do some of the repairs myself.

I am sometimes surprised at how long some bike shops take for repairs, but then as you mentioned it is a case of logistics. With cars, it is normally the usual suspects, and you can probably get a welder to do odd ends as well. With cars, less people in the shop (supply - demand) and then there is the case that many parts are just replaced in whole.

 

[Arch]

So how do you get rid of the car centric culture? Currently those people don't want to change, they like their car and see the bike as something which requires effort to propel, you get wet when it rains, and in their mind can't carry very much. I think it will be very hard to change attitudes - and I don't think there is the political will-power to do so.

Some of my family were watching that police program last night - and they were talking about cloning car number-plates. They went to look how Sweden does it - very well (only one place makes the plates, they have information about the car on the plate, there is a matching VIN number on both the car and numberplate etc). In Sweden they have 1% uninsured/not taxed drivers in comparison to our 10% (not sure about the figures).

However the reason I brought the Sweden bit was that I was there watching the screen looking at the traffic - it was less dense and frantic than I normally see and wondered if that was the effect of the strict liability laws. I think it would make a difference to cyclists and certainly to the perceived safety of cycling which puts off future cyclists.

My personal long term plan is emigration.... Not helpful really.

Otherwise, I despair. Maybe when the oil runs out...

I caught a bit of that programme last night, as ever the Scandinavians seem to have it sorted. They did say that there are something like 5 million(?) vehicles registered there, as opposed to our 35million. (looking it up, the population of Sweden is about (rather roughly) 10,000,000, to our 60,000,000, so a slightly lower cars per capita rate, but not hugely so. (2 people per car as opposed to our 1.7 if I've worked that out right...) On the other hand, Sweden is getting on for twice the size of he UK, so the people and cars are spead out more. (hence we are more stressed, I guess).

But in my limited experience (a week's holiday in Copenhagen), Scandinavians just behave better and seem less stressed (Wallender aside, of course). In the whole week, I saw very few fat or unhealthy looking people, and they nearly all turned out to be foreign tourists. Interestingly, I don't remember seeing a child having a tantrum either. Imagine if you could say that after a week walking around central London!

I've heard that the situation in the Netherlands is at least partly due to some major legislation against car use/in favour of public transport/cycling etc which was unpopular at the time. I just can't see any party having the guts over here.

 

[ttcycle]

Sorry, I cannot understand why you object.

If one is to debate a subject, then surely at least the wording ought to be considered - if not the premise. To state that ones ethnicity has an influence on their consideration of cycling is simply absurd.

This is why I asked for clarity, rather than simply mouthing off as you have done in your post.

If you read again, I've answered your question ie we view this differently.I am not mouthing off as you put it, is that how you answer everyone? A perfect way to get a person's back up, if indeed I cared enough to do so.

The reason I object as you put it is that unless you haven't noticed, others haven't been contributing to this particular strand of the debate since it verged into chin stroking territory and I have no worries re the chin stroking but if it means that it's a barrier at discussing the issue at hand for others I don't necessatily see the point. I have no need to demonstrate 'intellectual superiority' at the cost of teasing out the issue. The premises you needed have been stated and we hold different points of view on them. I disagree that ethnicity does not influence views on cycling. Why do you think it is absurd, this would be more useful to examine and maybe can be debated.

edit: let me clarify, ethnicity is closely linked in with culture, I don't feel it is simply about a set of of biological/physical factors. This I think is where you disagree with me Chap.

 

[BentMikey]

I'm with you tt, coming from a very different culture too.

 

[chap]

Sigh, immaturity

If you read again, I've answered your question ie we view this differently.I am not mouthing off as you put it, is that how you answer everyone? A perfect way to get a person's back up, if indeed I cared enough to do so.

The reason I object as you put it is that unless you haven't noticed, others haven't been contributing to this particular strand of the debate since it verged into chin stroking territory and I have no worries re the chin stroking but if it means that it's a barrier at discussing the issue at hand for others I don't necessatily see the point. I have no need to demonstrate 'intellectual superiority' at the cost of teasing out the issue. The premises you needed have been stated and we hold different points of view on them. I disagree that ethnicity does not influence views on cycling. Why do you think it is absurd, this would be more useful to examine and maybe can be debated.

edit: let me clarify, ethnicity is closely linked in with culture, I don't feel it is simply about a set of of biological/physical factors. This I think is where you disagree with me Chap.

This is becoming very immature. Surely if there is something mentioned during a topic of conversation that sticks out wanting clarification then it is obvious that this shall be sought.

If you had an issue with this simple request for clarification, for whatever reason, you could have simply mentioned so politely or ignored it; either way would have been preferable to your surly response.

I am not in the business of intentionally winding up people online nor in person, although some people are evidently highly strung to the extent that they would seek offence to the most inane of episodes. Regardless, I also take no offence to your immature remarks, I just find it a shame that such a simple thing could cause you to descend to that level.

So by ethnicity, you were refering to the cultural background, that is fine and pretty self-evident who would not agree. Although why you couldn't just answer the question without the attitude remains beyond me. To go off on an attack claiming it's against the spirit of the debate, and making childish comments, really won't progress matters; especially when it is normal that people are agreeing and disagreeing on similar points.

 

[ttcycle]

Come on Chap, surely that wasn't an immature response. If people don't respond the way you would like then just saying they're being childish is not warranted. My response is directly related to the post you wrote.

Assuming I am highly strung is also a bit presumptious but if you wish to do that go ahead..?

Ethnicity is cultural background BUT as I have been trying to say (again and again) physiological factors interact with this. What I mean by this is that say for example, the experience of a white South African will be different to a black or indian South African but they would still be culturally South African. Economics as well as cultural and these things influence the choices people make. That's what I mean, there are subtle things that link in to form the larger picture and I was preferring to actually keep on topic re cycle advocacy without going off on a tangent. Hope this is clarified now.

 

[ttcycle]

One thing that really interests me- is what was it that got you cycling...I love asking this question whenever I meet fellow cyclists.

My story is that the fares in London got very expensive and I had just started a new job and got hold of a cheap heavy folder from Ebay and would commute part way by bike and then train and then bike again. The little red bike, known affectionately as Dylan has not been out in years but I couldn't get rid of him as he's quite a sentimental machine for me. As for getting the bug and competing, that's another story!

What got you commuting by bike?

 

[Arch]

A bloke. Got me into cycling generally, and commuting is just part of that. Before I met him, I had cycled to work, when my Mini finally got sold off for scrap, but cycling didn't define me like it does now.

He's not around anymore, but the bikes he put together for me are, a wonderful mix of utility, cheapness and mismatches.

 

[ttcycle]

A bloke. Got me into cycling generally, and commuting is just part of that. Before I met him, I had cycled to work, when my Mini finally got sold off for scrap, but cycling didn't define me like it does now.

He's not around anymore, but the bikes he put together for me are, a wonderful mix of utility, cheapness and mismatches.

That's a great story Arch, it usually is someone in our life that gets us thinking about cycling as it's not a commuter norm in the UK.

 

[hackbike 666]

That's a great story Arch, it usually is someone in our life that gets us thinking about cycling as it's not a commuter norm in the UK.

It's not with some of the motons/non motons at work as with all the fancy gear (or not) you are treated like some sort of weirdo.If you have the latest BMW Series though you are some sort of hero.

Either that or you must be gay.

 

[ttcycle]

So hackbike, what got you started if not someone in your life?
Are you coming out on a Sunday ride soon?

 

[hackbike 666]

So hackbike, what got you started if not someone in your life?
Are you coming out on a Sunday ride soon?

Started cycling?

Don't really know.I guess it was my parent/s not allowing me to have a bike till I was 12.I almost swapped my camera for a bike but they wouldn't allow it in the early years.....then they allowed me to ride on Londons roads at the age of 12.Weird.Still if they had allowed me a few years earlier then I would have been cycling on Londons roads at a much younger age.

(2) Im not sure that I am fast enough as you guys seem to have all the gear and I have a (heavy) commuting bike plus age isn't on my side.Plus over the last two years I have got slower and struggled a bit.Better this year but not as fast as I would like to be.What I need is another lighter non commuting bike.

 

[ttcycle]

Hmm, I think you're talking yourself out of it!
The pace can be varied I'm sure - I know Mista P and Ianrauk sometimes need to get back for a certain time but there's always options to deviate off the main course and ride at a relaxed pace. I could do with taking it easy whilst I'm on and off with the colds.

It is up to you of course but would be nice to see you out on one.

Re your story...swapping a camera for the bike!! Madness- get both! Funny thing is I started cycling when I was very small, was never allowed on 'dangerous' roads and because of this it didn't continue into adulthood. It's that perceived safety thing again isn't it?

 

[Wheeledweenie]

I was never really into bikes as a child. I had one but it wasn't really my thing.

When I reached 25 I realised I was unhappy with my weight, couldn't afford a car (and can't drive anyway), hated the gym and needed something low-impact that wouldn't damage my already messed up hip joints. Enter my first bicycle Roger.

I must admit though, that even if the decision was mine I don't think I would have stuck it out without the support of Mr Weenie. He was sceptical at first but when he saw how happy it made me he really got on board even though he doesn't cycle himself.

Now I'm at a point where I actually had a dream someone stole my bike and I was traumatised!

 

[BentMikey]

Yeah come on Hackers, it'd be so awesome to meet you IRL!