Which fuel bottles fit bottle carriers?

[Little yellow Brompton]

and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...

Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.

For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...

Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.

For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "clogged up", those without a pre heating tube have only the jet to "clog" ( 123, Svea, MSR) and that's easy to cure. Those with a preheater ( ie Coleman) can clog up due to deposits on the indice , but only IME over a long time.

I totally agree with you that multi fuel is not the only game in town, but there are defiantly times when they get close to it, ie over X thousand feet(where you you need the calorific value of a liquid fuel ) , or when fuel will be varialble and uncertain, such as very remote areas for a long period. I think if you were in mongolia/africa it would be easier to run a MSR with it's choice of Petrol/Avgas/Parfian/Diesel/heating oil, cough mixture etc... that it would be finding Meths.


The big difference of course is output, Petrolo really does give so much bang per buck , especially pressurised than meths, even a Desert Rats sand fire has more power than a Trangia.

Saying that, the Association of Lightweight Campers has held a stove lighting compettion at Easter every year for at least 60 years( first to boil a pint of water) and the Trangia has won quite often, especially if it's a windy day.

 

[Blue Hills]

I too am impressed by Little Yellow Brompton's world of stoves.

Can you tell me what "X" means in terms of thousands of feet? How many?

Since I'm a beginner with the Trangia, maybe I can ask a question or two - apologies if off topic.

I think the instructions say to fill it no more than 2/3. I'm a bit bad at judging these things sometimes, especially if in a hurry. Pity they didn't graduate it - might hep you judge the fuel. What would happen if you went over 2/3? How much of a problem?

What do folks do with the bit of fuel you tend to get left after you've finished cooking/given up as the heat output has gone so low - throw it away? pour it back in the bottle? Latter may be an issue as I seem to see bits of debris in it for some reason.

Or is the seal on the burner cap good enough to just leave it in the burner and put it in your pannier?

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

I too am impressed by Little Yellow Brompton's world of stoves.

Can you tell me what "X" means in terms of thousands of feet? How many?

Since I'm a beginner with the Trangia, maybe I can ask a question or two - apologies if off topic.

I think the instructions say to fill it no more than 2/3. I'm a bit bad at judging these things sometimes, especially if in a hurry. Pity they didn't graduate it - might hep you judge the fuel. What would happen if you went over 2/3? How much of a problem?

What do folks do with the bit of fuel you tend to get left after you've finished cooking/given up as the heat output has gone so low - throw it away? pour it back in the bottle? Latter may be an issue as I seem to see bits of debris in it for some reason.

Or is the seal on the burner cap good enough to just leave it in the burner and put it in your pannier?

What values of X? I'm not sure to be honest, but not one that you would encounter in the UK.

filling? One of the first problems you will hit if you overfill is that it will be more difficult to light, don't forget you are burning the vapour not the liguid and some of the vapour is within the rim of the burner under the holes, by filling to the brim you reduce the surface area of liquid and hence the amount of vapour generated.

The next problem will be that due to the thermal expanssion of the liquid the burnder will overlflow, and of course it's burning so itwill overflow with burning meths, this will get all over te place and because the spillage will also be heating the burner ( from the outside) you will create a feedback loop where more heat means more expansion means more spillage, means more heat....

The third problem will be that your pans will soot up much faster than they normally do, more fuel but the same amount of air means a richer flame .



As for runner seal, that's what it is for to enable you to move from site to site with a fully loaded burner, but I would make sure you wrap it well in the poly bag it came in , before you out it back in thre kettle. It tastes foul for ever if you spill meths.

I would burn off all the meths before storing the Trangia though.


Now excuse me I think I will go and play with my whisperlite for a while! :-)

 

[Blue Hills]

Thanks for all of that littleyellow Brompton - great advice - I'd forgotten about the vapour thingy - makes total sense.

And for the reassurance about the seal on the burner.

I've heard so much stuff about the horror of the taste of meths inside the kettle that I thing I'll keep the burner, in its bag, in a front pannier.

As for lighting the thing (and this kind of makes less sense to me after your wise words about the fact that I'm lighting vapour/not liquid) I'm slightly puzzled by the fact that I once managed to light it with one of those metal flint things but after that have never managed it and have had to use a match. Could the adding of water (as recommended I gather) inhibit spark lighting? By sitting on the surface/not mixing with the meths too quickly? Forgive my ignorance - suppose it's just best to use a cheap ciggie lighter, or does anyone else manage to light the burner with a metal flint stick/scraper thingy?

Thanks chaps for all of your advice and patience.

In case anyone thinks otherwise, I'm very pleased with the Trangia - not likely to hit X thousand feet in my tours I think.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

Thanks for all of that littleyellow Brompton - great advice - I'd forgotten about the vapour thingy - makes total sense.

And for the reassurance about the seal on the burner.

I've heard so much stuff about the horror of the taste of meths inside the kettle that I thing I'll keep the burner, in its bag, in a front pannier.

As for lighting the thing (and this kind of makes less sense to me after your wise words about the fact that I'm lighting vapour/not liquid) I'm slightly puzzled by the fact that I once managed to light it with one of those metal flint things but after that have never managed it and have had to use a match. Could the adding of water (as recommended I gather) inhibit spark lighting? By sitting on the surface/not mixing with the meths too quickly? Forgive my ignorance - suppose it's just best to use a cheap ciggie lighter, or does anyone else manage to light the burner with a metal flint stick/scraper thingy?

Thanks chaps for all of your advice and patience.

In case anyone thinks otherwise, I'm very pleased with the Trangia - not likely to hit X thousand feet in my tours I think.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I blame you lot for this, I went and playe with the whisperlite in the garage, then the 123's then went browsing and found this
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/evernew-titanium-alcohol-stove.html

It's Ti so I want one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not hard core enough to even think about using a striker. I restrict strikers, fire pumps, wire wool, glasses, fire ploughs, bows , pottasium and all the other exotic methods to showing off events only, for all other occasions it's a lifeboat match everytime.

The water reduces sooting from over fuelling, but of course if you have enough wind you won't over fuel, so I woudn't add water everytime.

 

[Domestique]

I have always found just a few drops of water is enough to stop sooting.
As for which bottle and carrier, I have a small frame, 48cm, and with a trangia 1lt bottle and a bike buddy on the set of boss's on the underneath of the down tube there was overlap. Works fine with the 0.5ltr bottle though. My partner has no trouble with the 1ltr bottle on a larger frame so between the two of us that 1.5ltrs which is good for about a week or so before we have to start looking for fresh supplies.
Btw one of the things I love with the trangia is the quietness first thing in the morning, none of that hissing gas milarky

 

[andrew_s]

I would make sure you wrap it well in the poly bag it came in , before you out it back in thre kettle. It tastes foul for ever if you spill meths.

The reason for the poly bag isn't to stop your tea tasting foul, but to stop the burner from corroding holes in the kettle (dissimilar metals and electrochemical corrosion, and all that).

It doesn't corrode quick enough during a trip, but if you put the Trangia way when you get home with the burner in the kettle with no poly bag, you could well be surprised by a leaky kettle on the first brew of your next trip.

 

[Brains]

As for the shop's advice I referred to above - maybe I'd better not mention them by name, but here's the story.

That is the most interesting bit of the story, so which shop was giving such appaling advice ?
Also given that I typically buy about 5 Trangia's a year (Scouts and DofE) who sells them cheap !

 

[Blue Hills]

These people.

http://www.outdooraction.co.uk/

I don't know if the price I got the Trangia for in the end can be beaten easily - it seemed decent.


I like the shop generally, but do think it would be good to listen to the customers a tad more maybe

 

[Crankarm]

I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.

Warning : Dead thread resurrection.

But given the content of your new post worth it.

Shop assisant = muppet.

Where did this muppet suggest carrying the fuel bottle? In a trailer with the appropriate hazardous chemical symbols ? I think petrol in a confined space such as a bottle would not "catch fire" if in contact with a naked flame or spark, but explode! Any cyclists brave enough to smoke whilst cycling? Ok you could stop some where and some one chucks a cigarette end near or under your bike - BOOM!!! or chavs could chuck a cigarette end out their car window at you - BOOM! But then MSR/Primus fuel bottles are designed to carry fuel and therefore comply with strict safety criteria specific to carrying fuel which perhaps the muppet didn't realise. Perhaps he thought one could simply put fuel in a normal drinks bottle. That would be taking the petrol and like riding with a Molotof cocktail between your legs .

 

[Blue Hills]

He suggested that I put the Trangia bottle in one of my panniers. I'm not really sure how that is safer as such.

I'm pretty sure it was clear that I was talking to him about Trangia fuel - ie: meths.

I didn't think meths was that dangerous as long as you are sensible - it doesn't seem to be the most aggressive/powerful stuff when cooking. And I'm not aware that it has ever been used as a weapon of war for instance. Mind you, I'm no scientist.

 

[Crankarm]

He suggested that I put the Trangia bottle in one of my panniers. I'm not really sure how that is safer as such.

I'm pretty sure it was clear that I was talking to him about Trangia fuel - ie: meths.

I didn't think meths was that dangerous as long as you are sensible - it doesn't seem to be the most aggressive/powerful stuff when cooking. And I'm not aware that it has ever been used as a weapon of war for instance. Mind you, I'm no scientist.

Meths is fine unless you start drinking it. Fine in a bottle for fuel in a bottle rack. I would only consider placing it inside pannier if the weather was very hot and of course direct sunlight which might have been what the muppet shop assistant was thinking of. Sorry but I thought you were talking about petrol which is just a little more volatile. If putting a fuel bottle in your pannier try and find a suitable robust vapour proof bag. Alternatively buy the Trangia gas adaptor and use butane canisters. I did. Far better. Personally meths would be a last resort fuel for me as it takes an age to boil anything. A Trangia on gas heats a full pan of water awesomely quick, it is unreal. Gas burner adaptors are about £40 and well worth it IMHO. But then again it depends where you are going and for how long. HTH.