Which fuel bottles fit bottle carriers?

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Location
London
I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.
 

willem

Über Member
That seems absolutely bonkers. I think underneath the downtube is ideal. It keeps the smelly nasty fuel outside your pannier. Also the bottle location underneath the downtube is the least suitable for carrying water. You cannot get at it while riding, and it gets dirty with potentially unhealthy stuff like animal dung.
Willem
 

MontyVeda

a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
pound shop... they often have metal Sigg type bottles, for a pound... and bottle cages too, also for a pound.


Edit... having just read the thread... they may not be suitable due to the potential corrosion issue... but it's not leaking yet.
 

Little yellow Brompton

A dark destroyer of biscuits!
Location
Bridgend
I was in a camping shop the other day and asked about this. The guy claimed to be a cyclist, though maybe not a cycletourist. He reckoned that carrying fuel in the bottom bottle cage was dangerous and that you ran a risk of being set on fire. I can't really see this, especially as I know so many folk do it.

He would probably have a fit if he saw a late freind's touring bike, with a downtube that had a tap and filler to carry paraffin for the Primus stove.
 
Location
London
Yes I thought it odd - the guy in the shop and his assistant both laughed in a theatrical sort of shock horror fashion at any thought of putting the bottle there. Thanks for clarifying chaps. Must say, that this shop also went down in my estimation after they gave me some dodgy advice on the relative merits of a Trangia and an MSR Whisperlite.

BTW, who stocks the BikeBuddy in the UK?
 

Little yellow Brompton

A dark destroyer of biscuits!
Location
Bridgend
Yes I thought it odd - the guy in the shop and his assistant both laughed in a theatrical sort of shock horror fashion at any thought of putting the bottle there. Thanks for clarifying chaps. Must say, that this shop also went down in my estimation after they gave me some dodgy advice on the relative merits of a Trangia and an MSR Whisperlite.

BTW, who stocks the BikeBuddy in the UK?

I've got both and got time for a laugh.... so what did they say?
 

hubbike

Senior Member
I keep my fuel bottle(s) in my panniers.

Beware. Make sure that the fuel bottle can cope with meths. I have been using an aluminium fuel bottle and wondering what the sludge was in it....meths corrodes aluminium. I now use a Trangia polythene bottle.

Why do you think you need a second stove for longer trips?

My Trangia has served me well on two and three week tours.

Mine's served me well on a 13 month tour in south america. Alcohol can be kept in any plastic bottle (either the one you bought it in or an old coke bottle) and is available cheaply the world over (except UK perhaps!!) in hardware shops, camping shops or in pharmacies (80% alcohol is used worldwide for medical purposes).

Trangia owners are renowned for boring their friends with how good they are, so instead I'll tell you why I think multi-fuel stoves are so terrible.


IMHO pressurised multi-fuel stoves are horrid things. They spit out petrol, make a horrible noise, get clogged up, break, have too many moving parts, have parts that wear out, require tinkering, are hard to use, smell, burn your food and are expensive.

Do yourself a favour and stick with the trangia.
 
Location
London
Re the second stove thingy, I have a very small Gellert thingy which goes onto a screw on gas cartridge (it's a clone of the MSR Pocket Rocket) which I need for my Italian espresso pot - that can't be used on the Trangia. Despite having to carry the screw-on gas cartridge, it also seemed a good idea for maybe finishing off a Trangia meal if the burner ran out (I gather that you can't refill it until it's cool though I suppose you could get a second burner) and for the odd meal where a second "ring" would be handy.

After some thought (and a single usage - so far only used the new Trangia in my back garden) I agree with hubbike on the relative merits of the Trangia and multifuel stoves.

Petrol is nasty stuff and getting it surely a fag. And after some thought I decided that the fact that you can buy an "annual maintenance kit" and an "expedition maintenance kit" or whateever for the the Whisperlite is ominous to say the least. What sort of maintenance does the Trangia need? None that I can see.

As for the shop's advice I referred to above - maybe I'd better not mention them by name, but here's the story.

I wandered in pretty much having decided after masses of research that I needed a Trangia for cycletouring and told them that I liked the idea of its simplicity and that ultimate speed of operation was not an issue for me. Despite this, I was warned off the Trangia very quickly and taken to see the Whisperlite. They almost convinced me, but not quite and I said I would return.

After a thought I decided that they had given me bad advice and to tell the truth had not listened to me/discussed the relative merits of the two stoves.

Suspicious factors:

The Trangia (including the hard anodised) would have been half price along with a general half price sale they were having whereas the MSR was full price.

The guy blatantly contradicted himself (never a good tactic) - said that the Trangia was dangerous and presented visions of you disappearing in a fireball due to invisible creeping vapour fumes/invisible flames. But later, when I asked why it was so widely used by Duke of Edinburgh Award folk despite the awful slowness he was telling me about, he pretty much said that they liked it because it was so safe and could be used by a broad range of folks who weren't outdoor experts. er, so its ultra dangerous AND very safe? He also pushed me towards the Whisperlite with horror stories about the health hazards of aluminium cookware, even though, when I later thought about it, that link has I understand never been proven, has even been discredited maybe, and surely could have been addressed by the Duossal (steel coated) and hard anodised Trangias which they stock.

You may think me a muppet but I returmned later to buy the Trangia from them, though by then it was not at half price but at their normal price. Their normal price is still competitive with other outlets but by no means half. I did then discover that this price, which I had in good faith researched on the web, is their "web price" not available in the shop. I did, after the earlier run-around, insist on the web price though, which, through gritted teeth, they gave me.

Then I bought the fuel bottle - and then the horror tales of your and your bike going up in flames! - see above

I do get the feeling that the Whisperlite does have its real merits but that they are mainly for folks sat on mountain ledges at high altitude in sub zero temperatures who very understandaby would like a cup of tea real fast. Well that and poseur lower altitude campers who "demand performance from their stoves", who demand the best toilet paper that science can deliver etc etc ....
 

Little yellow Brompton

A dark destroyer of biscuits!
Location
Bridgend
Mine's served me well on a 13 month tour in south america. Alcohol can be kept in any plastic bottle (either the one you bought it in or an old coke bottle) and is available cheaply the world over (except UK perhaps!!) in hardware shops, camping shops or in pharmacies (80% alcohol is used worldwide for medical purposes).

Trangia owners are renowned for boring their friends with how good they are, so instead I'll tell you why I think multi-fuel stoves are so terrible.


IMHO pressurised multi-fuel stoves are horrid things. They spit out petrol, make a horrible noise, get clogged up, break, have too many moving parts, have parts that wear out, require tinkering, are hard to use, smell, burn your food and are expensive.

Do yourself a favour and stick with the trangia.


I have a number of Trangias, a Gelert , and a number of home made spirit stoves. I also have an Optimus 123 climber, a Svea 123, a Coleman peak1, a Peak 1 lantern, a Coleman multifuel, a Coleman triple burner, a Coleman twin mantle lantern, a MSR whisperlite and assorted Primus stoves and Tilley lamps. Oh and a Kelly Kettle! So I think I speak from experience and have no real axe to grind.

Your heartflet rant (above) was a little bit shotgun like, as shown by the first example , multi fuel stoves don't all "spit out petrol" as by their definition they don't all use petrol, but even the ones that do if they are spitting it out then they are not being used correctly .Tilley lamps have the same poor reputation for flaring when being lit , but only from people who don't light them properly. As for a "horrible noise" , this can be argued from two directions, the first is that those that do "roar" do admitedly make a noise and it can be loud. However it is a matter of perspective whether this noise is "horrible" I for one find the roar of the 123 comforting and noise that the MSR makes on full reheat awe inspiring. The Colemans are whisper stoves and there are various Optimus stoves that are also quiet , the Colemans make less noise than the sound of th bacon frying.

As for clogging, in 30 years the Colemans have never clogged, the 123s have a built in uncloging needle, and the MSR has one that you use by simply shaking, in contrast the spirit stoves often clog and need to have their 70+ holes cleaned , but there is no tool supplied ( or available ) for doing so.

None of the above stoves has broken, but I will not comment upon the peak 1 lantern apart frm the fact that it;s the work of Stan!

The 123's have the same number of moving parts as the Trangia, 1 !

Apart from the triple burner I have never had any parts waer out on any of the stoves., with the expection of the Trangia ( kettle developed a hole from meths leak)

Tinkering? I'm not sure what you mean , but again some my like tinkering.

Burn your food? The 123s Colemans, MSR and the Primus's , once warmed will simmer far far better than a Trangia , and you can tunr the heat up an down and back up again, which is difficult with a trangia.

Expensive? When you compare running costs I think they even out. Especially when you add up the the extra costs of findign Meths, versus the often free petrol/diesel that you get from a motorist donating a Ltr when they fill up.


Horses for courses , but certainly not cut and dried.
 

Little yellow Brompton

A dark destroyer of biscuits!
Location
Bridgend
Re the second stove thingy, I have a very small Gellert thingy which goes onto a screw on gas cartridge (it's a clone of the MSR Pocket Rocket) which I need for my Italian espresso pot - that can't be used on the Trangia. Despite having to carry the screw-on gas cartridge, it also seemed a good idea for maybe finishing off a Trangia meal if the burner ran out (I gather that you can't refill it until it's cool though I suppose you could get a second burner) and for the odd meal where a second "ring" would be handy.

After some thought (and a single usage - so far only used the new Trangia in my back garden) I agree with hubbike on the relative merits of the Trangia and multifuel stoves.

Petrol is nasty stuff and getting it surely a fag. And after some thought I decided that the fact that you can buy an "annual maintenance kit" and an "expedition maintenance kit" or whateever for the the Whisperlite is ominous to say the least. What sort of maintenance does the Trangia need? None that I can see.

As for the shop's advice I referred to above - maybe I'd better not mention them by name, but here's the story.

I wandered in pretty much having decided after masses of research that I needed a Trangia for cycletouring and told them that I liked the idea of its simplicity and that ultimate speed of operation was not an issue for me. Despite this, I was warned off the Trangia very quickly and taken to see the Whisperlite. They almost convinced me, but not quite and I said I would return.

After a thought I decided that they had given me bad advice and to tell the truth had not listened to me/discussed the relative merits of the two stoves.

Suspicious factors:

The Trangia (including the hard anodised) would have been half price along with a general half price sale they were having whereas the MSR was full price.

The guy blatantly contradicted himself (never a good tactic) - said that the Trangia was dangerous and presented visions of you disappearing in a fireball due to invisible creeping vapour fumes/invisible flames. But later, when I asked why it was so widely used by Duke of Edinburgh Award folk despite the awful slowness he was telling me about, he pretty much said that they liked it because it was so safe and could be used by a broad range of folks who weren't outdoor experts. er, so its ultra dangerous AND very safe?


The DoE now only accpet the gas Trangia for use on expecitions! MAinly I think becuase their main client base now is schools who offer the scheme very badly and are incredably risk adverse without understading the real risks.

He does have a point about the invisible flames, and also the chance of a spill igniting. however the Trangia is very , very stable straight out of the box. This doesn't make it much safer in use than another type though because you should really use some spare pegs to anchor the other ypes of stove. (SOmething the DoE and schools never bother teaching) .


Spirit stoves have another advantage that the flame can be extinguished by water. The gas version of the trangia howver has nothign going for it at all.
 

hubbike

Senior Member
I have a number of Trangias, a Gelert , and a number of home made spirit stoves. I also have an Optimus 123 climber, a Svea 123, a Coleman peak1, a Peak 1 lantern, a Coleman multifuel, a Coleman triple burner, a Coleman twin mantle lantern, a MSR whisperlite and assorted Primus stoves and Tilley lamps. Oh and a Kelly Kettle! So I think I speak from experience and have no real axe to grind.

...

Horses for courses , but certainly not cut and dried.

Well, LYB, you obviously like your stoves. Do you tour with a trailer?

The "IMHO" modifier clarifies that I'm expressing a personal opinion, hence I can dislike the noise and smell if I like. Multi fuel stoves come with repair kits and spares. (if they never broke, or needed parts replacing, why would they bother?)

For UK use I would suggest a canister gas stove is about as convenient as you could get.

This is all a bit off-topic now though...
 

Little yellow Brompton

A dark destroyer of biscuits!
Location
Bridgend
Well, LYB, you obviously like your stoves. Do you tour with a trailer?

The "IMHO" modifier clarifies that I'm expressing a personal opinion, hence I can dislike the noise and smell if I like. Multi fuel stoves come with repair kits and spares. (if they never broke, or needed parts replacing, why would they bother?)

For UK use I would suggest a canister gas stove is about as convenient as you could get.

This is all a bit off-topic now though...

You may say that I coudn't posibly comment! ;-)

Of course you can , I was only tryin to point out that there are two types of multi fuel stove "roarers" and" silent" as for smell I agree with you about Diesel or Parrafin, but Petrol evaporates fast and the smell goes, meths on the other hand, the smell disapears quickly but the taste on anything it touches is foul and forwever.

As for spares, and repair kits ... I think it might be for the presumption that the multi fuel are going to be used in more remote areas?

Plus all multi fuels are not the same the 123 ( Ok it's petrol only) has no pump and only the needle as it's moving part. If you want real convienece forget the gas go for a kelly kettle or a wood burning pocket stove ( oops , forgot I got one of those as well)
 

hubbike

Senior Member
As for spares, and repair kits ... I think it might be for the presumption that the multi fuel are going to be used in more remote areas?

and being "touring and expedition" that's exactly the circumstances I think should be considered...

Several cycle tourers I've met complain about their multi fuel stoves clogging up, mainly due to the poor quality of gasoline and diesel in countries outside europe/usa. Ironically it then becomes difficult/expensive to get fuel.

For me, for long tours (year off type things), multi-fuel stoves are often bandied about as the only viable stove. It's not true. As usual, cycle-touring (like hiking) piggy-backs on mountaineering technology, even when it's not appropriate. And even mountaineers prefer gas canisters to pressure stoves these days...
 
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